Masochistic for Jesus
26 January 2010 by Stardust
It’s not only the muslims who are into self-flagellation and masochistic acts, many Christians do it too. They love being a martyr for their imaginary friend. And it’s all so utterly unnecessary. When religion isn’t involved when people hurt themselves, they are usually put away in a mental institution for their own protection. When a crazy person hurts himself in the name of religion, they are recommended for “sainthood” instead of the funny farm.
This story caught my eye when browsing the headlines today. Respected leader of the Catholic Church, John Paul II used a belt to whip himself:
VATICAN CITY – Pope John Paul II whipped himself with a belt, even on vacation, and slept on the floor as acts of penitence and to bring him closer to Christian perfection, according to a new book by the Polish prelate spearheading his sainthood case.
*snip*
At a news conference Tuesday, Oder defended John Paul’s practice of self-mortification, which some faithful use to remind them of the suffering of Jesus on the cross.
“It’s an instrument of Christian perfection,” Oder said, responding to questions about how such a practice could be condoned considering Catholic teaching holds that the human body is a gift from God.
In the book, Oder wrote that John Paul frequently denied himself food — especially during the holy season of Lent — and “frequently spent the night on the bare floor,” messing up his bed in the morning so he wouldn’t draw attention to his act of penitence.
“But it wasn’t limited to this. As some members of his close entourage in Poland and in the Vatican were able to hear with their own ears, John Paul flagellated himself. In his armoire, amid all the vestments and hanging on a hanger, was a belt which he used as a whip and which he always brought to Castel Gandolfo,” the papal retreat where John Paul vacationed each summer.
While there had long been rumors that John Paul practiced self-mortification, the book provides the first confirmation and concludes John Paul did so as an example of his faith.
26 January 2010, on 7:53 pm
As the article points out, this has been rumored for a long time. And as I said when I first heard about it years ago “hey, everyone has their fetishes. As long as no one else got hurt this one was relatively harmless”.
26 January 2010, on 8:56 pm
This isn’t some sexual proclivity, Jer, this is/was a standard teaching via Rome – religion teaches people to hate their flesh & all that’s associated w/it. That’s unhealthy.
26 January 2010, on 11:09 pm
Exactly, it is unhealthy. And if it isn’t associated with religion, that conclusion is nearly unanimous in most societies.
27 January 2010, on 4:03 am
“In modern times, it has been speculated [citation needed] that the more extreme practices of mortification of the flesh may have been used to obtain altered states of consciousness for the goal of experiencing religious experiences or visions; medical research has shown[citation needed] that great pain releases endorphins which can have such effect, and even get some fetishists addicted to pain.”
Again we are surprised by the addiction of this type which is prevalent especially among humans who repress their sexual addiction. It has to break out in some manner and whatever brings on the endorphins; even sex with children satisfies the addicted brain. Another example of the way in which psychological conflict within the brain leads to inappropriate behavior. Because of their fanatical belief they must suffer severe cognizant dissonance.
Perhaps someday, in the distant future, these so called saints will be classified with the totally mental deficient insane.
27 January 2010, on 9:55 am
This isn’t some sexual proclivity, Jer,
So you say. I find it hard to believe that it could be anything BUT a displaced sexual proclivity. You can’t just chalk it up to “insanity” – that’s like saying “God did it” – it’s just putting a label on it and pretending that it’s an answer. Calling someone crazy doesn’t solve anything.
He had to be getting some kind of satisfaction out of beating himself, and my bet is that it was physical gratification that he would have called spiritual ecstasy. Physical gratification has often throughout history been called being “touched by the Holy Spirit” – often by people who have forced themselves into celibacy as a lifestyle choice (or have had it thrust upon them). There could be other explanations of course, but if someone could come up with a testable experiment I’d be willing to wager money on the outcome being related to sex in this case.
27 January 2010, on 11:28 am
If there are any lingering doubts that religion is some kind of mental illness, they can all be dismissed based on this little piece alone.
My catholic relatives seem surprised that I don’t want my three young sons to have anything to do with the church or any other religion. Aside from all the child molesting, the head man himself was a twisted creep. Maybe I’ll forward this piece to them. Sheesh!
27 January 2010, on 11:37 am
I wonder if he had any genital piercings?
27 January 2010, on 1:39 pm
Not all that surprising from the leader of a religion which is based almost solely on guilt. If you look at xian dogma, the idea is that everyone is born flawed because of two people eating a piece of fruit at the beginning of time. Because of this one act, we’re all so deeply awful, so the story goes, the only way our sky daddy could possibly forgive us is to send us his son so we could butcher him, thereby somehow relieving us of this terrible burden. Of course, we now have imagery of an innocent man beaten, bloodied, and killed who had to do this for us terrible sinners. Thus, the guilt is magnified. Add to this the notion that just about any desires we’re born with are wrong and filthy unless channeled through church sanctioned activities and you’re left with a religion where you have to embrace insanity if you’re going to live your life according to its precepts. Just another example of what happens when people deny themselves of their basic, biological urges due to a notion that our bodies our not ourselves and are merely a corrupting influence.
27 January 2010, on 8:53 pm
Maybe if he had “whipped” his Dick once in a while he wouldn’t have had to flagellate himself………………………. I’m LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!
27 January 2010, on 10:33 pm
Whip It. Whip it real good!
28 January 2010, on 1:32 am
I have to agree with Jer to a certain extent–everyone needs on outlet for their sexual needs–everyone.
Take a totally normal sexuallity (or perhaps one that deviates from the statistical norm, but is still harmless and potentially healthy.) Then deny yourself a typical outlet for that sexual “energy.” Then allow yourself to be brainwashed into believing that your entire being is bad. And because you are so bad, the physical manifestation of god himself had to be tortured to death for the sake of your filthy, undeserving soul. And all god really asks is that you just accept that he did this for you. But of course anyone can do that. So if you really want to show your penetence, you can share in the brutal suffering that god’s son suffered through by punishing your coporeality–the part of you that leads you to sin. Incidentally, certain stimuli, such as pain can produce an endorphin rush–much like the one produced during sexual activity…oh, and you don’t have to feel guilty about this one.
Yeah, it’s a totally sick-fuck means of sexual release. And no, I am not saying that S/M is sick–flagellation only shares superficial similarities to S/M. Those who engage in S/M are typically very happy with their bodies and their sexuality. Flagellation is borne out of guilt. And it is the only sexual outlet that people like this have allowed themselves. It’s how people get off when they have allowed themselves no other means of doing so.
Brooklyn boy: I still maintain that religion, even religion like this, is not mental illness–it is a social illness that can certainly lead to mental illness. It’s like saying being the victim of abuse is mental illness. Obviously it is not, but it certainly can lead to mental illness. The religious are victims.
28 January 2010, on 1:42 am
Flagellation is borne out of guilt. And it is the only sexual outlet that people like this have allowed themselves. It’s how people get off when they have allowed themselves no other means of doing so.
And to be doing so to show some imaginary friend your loyalty indicates mental illness to a certain extent. While there may be some sexual release, these folks still think a god is watching them the whole time.
I agree with Brooklyn Boy, religion is a mental illness. When folks have other sorts of imaginary friends that they do not call “god”, then they are diagnosed with delusion, schizophrenia when they hear voices or think people are watching them from secret places and in secret ways. But when they say that they are doing these things for a god who watches their every move, from a special secret place, then it’s just a “social illness”? I disagree.
28 January 2010, on 4:31 am
I have to agree with Stardust. The reason that we have difficulty distinguishing this religious insanity from what one might consider normal is that we live in a culture where the average are religiously insane and because of this it is difficult to make comparison. If everyone around you is insane then you think that it is normal because it is average.
28 January 2010, on 9:19 am
And this sick mother-f**ker was the one who was in charge of 1 & 1/2 Billion Katholics………… No wonder so many Christians are f**ked up!
28 January 2010, on 11:33 am
This still differs a great deal from Schizophrenia. For starters, Schizophrenia has a readibly identifiable physiological root–larger than typical amounts of dopamine or a hypersensativity to dopamine. This is something that can be treated, to a greater or lesser extent, with medication.
Say what you will about religion and certainly I am no fan. But it is not mental illness. The mentally ill do not choose their illness. To call religion a mental illness is a disservice to the mentally ill.
28 January 2010, on 8:18 pm
To call religion a mental illness is a disservice to the mentally ill.
I agree. However, as I have observed, while both religious and nonreligious people can be moral, it takes religion to sanctify strange behavior.
28 January 2010, on 10:03 pm
I see your point, Fritzy. The mentally ill are not ill by choice, and many mental illnesses can be treated. The religious god botherers are deluding themselves, choosing to live a fantasy life. They can snap out of it if they really want to, but it’s too comfortable to keep clinging to the delusion. Would you say then that religion is more like an addiction?
Too bad there isn’t a medication to treat religious nuttery.
28 January 2010, on 11:40 pm
“To call religion a mental illness is a disservice to the mentally ill.”
That may be so, Fritzy…
Technically, Religion is not defined as a mental illness; but there’s plenty of evidence that it may be a form of mental virus.
As to what we “choose” in life; unless there’s some form of Reincarnation which allows us some kind of pre-existent, pre-birth, choice in what we’re born into, etc…something most atheists totally dismiss outright…exactly WHAT choice do any of us have?
Apparently…NONE.
Personally, I didn’t choose to be brainwashed Catholic; but in a way the “religious virus” was there, right from birth; and immediately “initiated” or perhaps “triggered” by my parents, especially my Irish Catholic mother.
I’ll go a bit further; when I entered into adulthood, and began to question my “Faith”, I found an easy solution to quelling the usual guilt and fear which, I’d say, universally accompanies any rebellion against indoctrination…that’d be…and indeed, for many people…
alcohol.
For me, that was the beginning of, an essentially lifelong, drug addiction; which, of course, became much more solidified and troublesome over the next decade or so. It took the better part of almost thirty subsequent years to finally break free of my alcohol and tobacco addictions.
Cutting to the chase; I’d classify religion more as a mental virus, which may also have a connection to a possible universally present human DNA virus…call it what you will…
“god gene”? Whatever.
There’s no way for me to know for sure; but if I had NOT been brainwashed in any form of religious belief, I may never have become an ‘alcoholic’…or if you prefer…drug addict; whatever you choose to call it.
Soooo…what DO we really have any so-called “free choice” over? We encounter all manner of diseases…viruses…over our whole lifetime; and NEVER really know the extent, and the exact “root” of when, where, or how we either succumb to them…or are perhaps immune.
One thing for sure…critically unexamined religions are all rather dangerous to any true HEALTHY mental state; AND, RE Christianity in particular, highly sado-masochistic, as well as “blame the victim” style indoctrinations.
If not an actual RECOGNIZED mental disease; religions certainly mimic closely what we would term…”virus”.
Most of you have probably seen it; but…
Here’s a somewhat old (2006)…but very excellent…reminder of Dawkins referencing religion as a virus:
“Root of all Evil. The Virus of Faith part 1 (of 5)”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLqkhVwQI8c
[As usual, see the right side page panel for the successive parts in the series.]
[Just a timely(?) note:
(Rev.) Ted Haggard, with his...erm...wife, is scheduled to appear on Larry King tonight. (I'll be sure to miss it?) What a perfect time to have Dawkins on, too?
Of course...as per usual...
"Dream on, Chuck!"]
29 January 2010, on 3:10 pm
The addiction analogy may be an apt one, Stardust, in that my understanding of addiction is that certain people, for whatever reason, are predisposed to substance abuse as a result of a difference in their physical reaction to alcohol, drugs, or in this case, a belt. For instance, a normal drinker has a few, and then stops. When an alcoholic drinks, there is a different chemical reaction which produces a euphoric effect which makes the person want to keep drinking. Similarly, some people seem predisposed to believe all sorts of dumb, religious shit and actively seek out further and further depths of insanity in religion.
29 January 2010, on 6:37 pm
For all practical purposes, society defines mental illness by majority rule. Believing in a god is just as loony as believing your neighbor’s dog is telling you to shit on the White House lawn.
But only one will get you placed in custody.
Anyway, I’m glad the pope beat himself. It saved me the trouble.
29 January 2010, on 7:01 pm
What we are at odds with here is the definition of insanity. When I went to school the difference between neurosis and psychosis was that one could be classified as having a neurosis when the neurosis did not affect other individuals, whereas the psychotic classification is one in which doing the same neurotic action was accompanied by its affect on others. Certainly the abortion Doc shooting has to be classified as psychotic and blowing yourself up to kill others also. Therefore, according to this definition the Pope’s flagellation done behind doors and not affecting others would be classified as a neurosis, but when brought to the attention of the public it might be classified as psychotic because of the public’s potential reaction to it. You’ve heard the old aphorism: the difference between an neurotic and a psychotic is that the psychotic thinks 2 + 2 = 5 and the neurotic knows that 2+2=4 but it makes him nervous.
30 January 2010, on 10:07 pm
Speaking of religion as (possibly) mental illness…say what?…
(or is it “Who dat”?)…
here’s a link to a down-loadable pdf file on the subject of…
“The Cognitive Neuropsychiatry of Religious Belief and Experience”.
Titled:
“Hallucinating God?” by Ryan McKay:
http://homepage.mac.com/ryantmckay/Paper%20PDFs%20for%20Website/Hallucinating%20God.pdf
It’s quite obvious and understandable, at least for most of us atheists, as to just why, at least officially, Psychiatry won’t just ‘come out’ (of THEIR high priced closet?) and overtly analyze and/or attack religion; i.e…definitely labeling religion as delusional.
“They” already have the Scientology goons breathing down their metaphorical necks, so to speak; which is hardly, of course, in ANY way comparable to the number of bat-shit nut-bags caught up in just the three Abrahamic delusions alone.
1 February 2010, on 3:18 pm
As long as no one’s paying particular attention; I guess I’ll sneak this bit of slightly OT shtick in…
Hey…I need SOMEPLACE, at the moment, to air my latest outrage…?
Y’all might have seen this in today’s (2/1/10) News.
Just one more example of total religious insanity:
“Female suicide bomber hits Iraq pilgrims, kills 54″
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100201/ap_on_re_mi_ea/ml_iraq
No matter what happens, like this, in Iraq or any Muslim country, nothing seems to make the slightest dent in people’s continued moronic belief in the Islamic version of outrageous delusional garbage.
Imagine if shit like this happened, AT ALL, in the US, Canada, etc.
Of course we’ve got our Christian loonies. At least the Dr. Tiller killer was recently sentenced to life in prison.
I’d like to tell all the anti-choice fucktards, like asshole Randall Terry, that, if gunning for anyone, they should really be out gunning for the all time champion abortionist…
their bullshit, imaginary “God” (or Jeebus)…
for all the UNINTENDED (non-chosen) Miscarriages in (statistically) 10 to 20% of ALL pregnancies.
What!…You do the math?
Sorry (NOT!); just some first of the month…gotta pay my rent-style mental tid-bits…
cue some funky “Blues in Bb Concert”? (for any of you horn players?)
(OK…E, if you’re more of a guitar-based ‘rocker’)