The Joys of Testicle-Toolness
23 July 2009 by Bob
Bill Would Require Man’s OK For Abortion
COLUMBUS, Ohio — An Ohio lawmaker has introduced a bill that would prevent a woman from having an abortion unless she gets written consent from the biological father. The proposal by State Rep. John Adams, R-Sidney, has stirred up controversy across the nation, 10TV’s Kevin Landers reported. “What does the father have to say in the abortion of his child? He has nothing to say (under current law),” Adams told 10TV News. In the case where the father isn’t known, House Bill 252 would compel the woman to provide a list of names of people who may be the father in an effort to determine paternity. The bill also would make it a crime for women to lie about who the father is, and make it illegal for doctors to perform abortions without the father’s consent. The bill would force a woman to have a child if the father does not agree to an abortion. “That child should be born, not killed,” Adams said.
Oh yes, making the male responsible for the female’s body — the more things change, the more they stay the same…
“Hey, but it’s his child, too“…
“Child,” eh?…
You stay classy, Ohio…
Guys can be such fucking morons…
24 July 2009, on 12:56 am
This legistator should have his balls tied around his neck!
24 July 2009, on 1:08 am
I’ll be in favor of this once they find a way to transplant the embryo into the asshole father. Then I’d say go for it.
What part of “right to privacy” don’t these legisilators get? Fuckwads.
24 July 2009, on 3:20 am
One wonders how a man with this distorted intellect could possibly become a legislator. Upon reflection it becomes clear that he was voted into the position by his constituents who apparently also have this distorted intellect. It can’t be what they eat, or drink or just the soil they live on, the only thing left is their delusional belief system. It’s enough to make you want to leave the human race, if you could.
24 July 2009, on 3:35 am
Wow. Just… wow. Whatever happened to the compromise ‘in the case of rape or incest’?
Now I haven’t looked at statistics, so I might just be talking out of my ass here, but how many abortions are from teens/twenty somethings? Does this guy actually think that if this passes the fathers WON’T sign off on abortion?
What happened to the fifth amendment? If the father is 18 and the girl is 16, then the father is guilty of statutory rape in some states. To give permission, to identify as the father, would be self incrimination. Or maybe I’m reaching.
24 July 2009, on 3:36 am
Oh, and for the record, I’m just pointing out other flaws that I see in the bill. As it’s already been pointed out that it gives a man control over a woman’s body, I thought I’d try to be different. I agree that that, and that alone, is enough to make me want to vomit.
24 July 2009, on 7:01 am
I’d go for this law… if it included the removal of the bastard’s balls who impregnated the woman up in the first place
24 July 2009, on 8:57 am
Not to be a dissenting voice here but I would possobly have a second child right now if my ex-wife hadn’t snuck off for an abortion without telling me. The man should get some say in the matter ( but not the controlling vote ). If the father and mother disagree then it needs to go to some sort of mediation – to just ignore the father’s rights completely is just as bad as ignoring the mother’s completely.
24 July 2009, on 9:30 am
Villaine, I sympathize with the fathers on this. It has to be a heartbreaking decision for them, also. Just because they cannot birth doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be part of the decision-making to at least talk about it.
On the other hand, the next thing you know some idiot will be suggesting that when a husband wants to “procreate” and make a baby, or two, or three, or five or ten…the woman must submit because the Babble says to.
24 July 2009, on 9:44 am
Fuck off. Unless and until we can find a way to transplant the fetus into your ballsack, you get no say. You’ve got more sperm, buddy, find a willing incubator and try again. Just because your pee-pee feels ashamed about them damn wimmenz having power over your manly man man sperms doesn’t mean you get any legal recourse.
24 July 2009, on 9:46 am
Now if the woman wants to involve the male party in the decision, that’s her choice. But it has to remain her choice, because the parasite is in her body and not yours.
24 July 2009, on 10:30 am
stogoe:
Listen, I’m w/Villane. If I impregnate a woman, I should @ least get consulted about that sort of decision.
A baby’s not a parasite. Maybe you should get a basic understanding of biology & anatomy.
This gender-bashing bullshit shouldn’t substitute for rational thinking.
& you sound like a major misanthrope.
24 July 2009, on 10:51 am
The man ought to be consulted; but that is all.
No one can tell a woman what to do with her body.
24 July 2009, on 11:49 am
The man ought to be consulted; but that is all.
No one can tell a woman what to do with her body.
That about sums it up like it should be. A man is not just a sperm donor. The absence of a uterus does not mean absence of caring about his unborn embryo/fetus. However, it’s the woman who does have to carry the burden of the growing fetus inside her body and must endure the pain of childbirth and many must do most of the raising of that child, so yes…no one can tell her she must go through with it.
24 July 2009, on 12:12 pm
I’m only a minor misanthrope (but still evolving).
I’ve quite often, over my (parasitical?) lifetime wished I’d been aborted or miscarried; and certainly, if some form of reincarnation existed, would NEVER want a return…at least to this insane speck in the Galaxy.
All ‘kidding’ and extreme ’semantics’ aside, what bothers me most, as an old non-parent, and strong advocate of a woman’s choice…is legislating something which should ALWAYS remain a private issue.
So many, if not most, pregnancies are the result of pure, “unadulterated” sexual, and extra-marital, momentary passion; that, in the end, the woman should ALWAYS be the final word. No government fucktards in the mix; or any (fucking) written document required.
In other woids, it’s the religious fucktards, AGAIN, poking their ignorant noses into everyone’s business…always with the slippery slope privacy issue.
IMO…Keep the (fucking…and non-fucking) government completely out of it.
You wanna fuck?…perhaps sign a contract, or waver…before penetration…?
Something else for the guys to carry in their wallet, besides, of course, a condom.
24 July 2009, on 12:21 pm
legislating something which should ALWAYS remain a private issue
Exactly…keep government out of our bedrooms and our uteruses.
24 July 2009, on 12:26 pm
And as regarding abortion, here is what the pro-lifers zero in on with the health care reform bill. All the things that must be considered for all the people, and they focus on one damn thing…
Pro-Life Democrats Tell Nancy Pelosi: No Health Care Reform With Abortion
24 July 2009, on 1:00 pm
Sorry Villaine and Krystalline, but you’ll get nothing and like it.
As men (as I am as well), we knowingly assume the consequences of having sex with a woman. Regarding abortion, the consequence is that the ultimate decision is the woman’s. If you support abortion rights and the right to privacy in general then you will ultimately have to accept this. If you can’t accept this then you have some options:
1. Get a vasectomy (I did, one of the best decisions I ever made)
2. Go gay, and never have to worry about the pregnancy issue again!!!
3. Find a woman who claims she is willing to let you decide what she can do with her body and hope she doesn’t change her mind.
If a woman whom you’ve impregnated has an abortion without consulting you, then you’ve got bigger problems and you should probably consider yourself lucky that she didn’t bring a child into such a relationship.
Sorry, I hate to sound like a dick here, but these are the facts of both nature and law. Yes, I know, we men make a valuable contribution to the process, at least for a few minutes anyway. But the woman is the one who is given the responsibility to actually do the work of bringing the baby into this world. I know, all of us men really really really wish it were the other way around. But until technology advances to the point where we men can be mothers, we’ll just have to accept the fact that when it comes to abortion, women get to make up their own minds, without our input if they don’t want to hear it. Whether we men ought to be consulted is really a moot point. If your relationship with the woman is good then most likely you will be consulted. But we men can cry all we want about how we ought to be consulted, that doesn’t mean anything unless you plan on forcing women to consult us.
24 July 2009, on 1:26 pm
It might as well be a parasite. What makes it not a parasite besides sperm magic?
What if you’re a rapist? Does the rapist get to subject his victim to 9 months of additional torture after the fact? What if you’re abusing her? What if you’re her father? What if you’re a deadbeat loser whose desire to control women as objects makes you completely unsuitable as a parent or human being? For what reason would the state enforce the male’s ownership of women he’s poked if not for purely misogynist reasons?
While I agree that personally it would be preferable if my partner felt inclined to make that kind of decision together with me, ultimately it’s her choice and the state has no business making her beg for my signature if I’m a skeezebag who would abuse these ownership rights they’re trying to grant.
24 July 2009, on 1:37 pm
and a rapist could force the raped woman to have his child ?
24 July 2009, on 2:06 pm
I’m all for this bill being brought up for a vote in the Ohio legislature, so long as it’s accurately titled. May I suggest the “Rapists’ Rights and Women’s Forced Pregnancy Act of 2009″. I’m sure it will get a fair hearing, even in Ohio.
And don’t despair, all you outside the Midwest… outside the west and central part of the state, Ohio actually has some reasonable legislators. I could have picked out Rep. Adams’ home district on a map based on his political positions, even without looking it up. This is John Boehner territory, and the conservative core includes plenty of small farm-town delusionals.
24 July 2009, on 2:41 pm
stogoe:
Parasites don’t leave the hosts, grow up, & end up taking care of the ‘hosts’.
A human fetus has value. It’s not a person, but it has more than zero value.
Listen you moron – I’m pro-choice, I don’t need a long laundry list of what-ifs.
‘What if’ I’m her husband, I’m a decent fella, I don’t do any of that shit – I come home, she says ‘honey, got pregnant, had an abortion, you have no say.’
24 July 2009, on 3:01 pm
Depends on who we date I suppose.
& yet you go into the speech anyways. The actual fact of the matter, is that the woman can’t get pregnant w/o the sperm. So it is a pivotal role, perhaps not in terms of time, but can’t do w/o it (unless someone knows of parthenogenesis among humanity).
& I don’t think it’s too much to ask to be consulted about the matter 1st. But then, we live in an anti-male culture these days, so it probably IS too much to ask.
24 July 2009, on 3:16 pm
I might also add, I’m not in favor of the bill, before someone tries to set up another stupid strawman.
24 July 2009, on 3:58 pm
and a rapist could force the raped woman to have his child ?
The fundies and strict Cat-o-licks would be all for that. Pope Ratzi would love it.
If it isn’t rape or a one-night-stand, then it would be considerate of the woman to at least consult with her partner.
24 July 2009, on 4:30 pm
The actual fact of the matter, is that the woman can’t get pregnant w/o the sperm. So it is a pivotal role, perhaps not in terms of time, but can’t do w/o it (unless someone knows of parthenogenesis among humanity).
& I don’t think it’s too much to ask to be consulted about the matter 1st. But then, we live in an anti-male culture these days, so it probably IS too much to ask.
I vaguely remember reading something a while ago about the possibility of women being able to create their own sperm, so women may be able to take men out of the equation completely some day. Of course, this won’t kill the need for abortion. Even if one woman impregnates another with artificial insemination by creating her own sperm, the woman who is actually pregnant can still change her mind and have an abortion.
You keep saying that you don’t think it would be too much to ask to be consulted about the matter but you don’t explain what you mean by this? Unless you are in favor of somehow forcing women to “consult” with you, which you claim you are not, then why keep bringing it up? Of course we all want the people in our lives to be honest with us, you are not expressing anything novel or groundbreaking here. But I don’t really see any way of requiring a woman to tell you that she is pregnant and that she is going to have an abortion other than by trying to control her body through the force of law. So ya, ultimately men have no say when it comes to a woman’s right to have control over reproduction. And if they are in a relationship with a woman where they really do have no say, then they are probably in the wrong relationship.
24 July 2009, on 4:42 pm
I don’t really see any way of requiring a woman to tell you that she is pregnant and that she is going to have an abortion other than by trying to control her body through the force of law.
The privacy laws prevent spouses from even discussing any personal medical business with medical personnel or insurance representatives, etc. My doctors will not discuss anything with my husband without my written consent and even though he is the policy holder, the insurance reps will not discuss my medical business with my husband without my written consent. So it’s the same thing for an abortion…it being the woman’s body and her personal medical business, the way the laws are now she is not obliged to talk to anyone about it.
24 July 2009, on 8:54 pm
Bruce:
I did explain it.
My point, & Villane’s (however, someone told him immediately to ‘fuck off’).
& of course, if the woman becomes insane, @ what point does she still have the legal right?
25 July 2009, on 2:19 am
The right to an abortion is a privacy issue–this is the legal precedent for legalized abortion. As such, it would seem the woman has no obligation to notify the father, if that is her choice.
KA and Villaine: I don’t mean to appear obtuse, nor am I being a smart-ass; from reading your comments, I am not sure whether you think there should be an actual law requiring the man to be notified. While I really do empathize with your situation, Villaine, I can’t see where such a law could be seen as anything but a violation of the woman’s privacy rights, and an attempt to impart state control over her uterus.
And as Stardust pointed out, this would be a clear violation of HIPAA laws. I’m no lawyer, but I do work in health care and get the privacy laws drilled into my head almost daily. The standard of HIPAA laws, ultimately, is what will likely get this bill thrown out on it’s ear in Ohio.
Regarding the insanity question KA, I believe the woman still has the right to make that choice for herself unless she has been deemed legally incompetent, at which point her durable power of attorney would be making such decisions for her. I don’t know for sure, but that’s the conclusion to which my experience in healthcare has led me.
25 July 2009, on 10:53 am
A man does not legally need his wife’s or companion’s permission before having a vasectomy, does he? There isn’t a fetus involved, but it does affect a couple’s reproductive future, usually permanently. While it is encouraged that the couple discuss this in depth before going through with the procedure, a man does not need his partner’s permission before having a vasectomy. His body is his own to do with what he wants even though he is carrying half of what is needed to produce a pregnancy.
25 July 2009, on 12:06 pm
Fritzy:
That’s okay – I made a completely separate comment stating that I wasn’t in favor of it.
I’m assuming that you’ve encountered cases of this sort? If so, an anecdote would be appreciated, as you’ve had experience in this matter.
& what is considered ‘durable power of attorney’? If deemed incompetent, I assume this means her kin step in & take charge of the situation?
25 July 2009, on 12:43 pm
“I’m assuming that you’ve encountered cases of this sort? If so, an anecdote would be appreciated, as you’ve had experience in this matter.”
No, I haven’t–I work in physical rehab–I’m just making an educated guess by generalizing from my experience, and I have had some exposure to matters of DPOA–there may be specific laws about abortion of which I’m not aware. I admit to not being an expert on the legal ins and outs of these matters–I’ve just picked up some knowledge of the legallities here and there. Sorry if I didn’t make this clear in my previous comment, but I did state I’m not a legal expert.
“& what is considered ‘durable power of attorney’? If deemed incompetent, I assume this means her kin step in & take charge of the situation?”
I think that varies–I would have to ask one of the case managers with whom I work for some of the details. It can be a family member–if family suspects the person is incompetent, they can take legal action to attempt to make the patients decisions for them. Ideally people will determine a durable power of attorney for themselves ahead of time–this can be a spouse, family member or even a friend. I think in some cases, such as Jon and Jane Doe cases, the state will appoint a DPOA, but admittedly I don’t know much about these cases, because I personally don’t have any experience with them.
25 July 2009, on 1:00 pm
KA
What exactly are you trying to say?
You seem to agree that a law granting men veto power over abortion is a bad idea. Cool, we’re all with you there.
You also say that, if you are the father, you want to be consulted before an abortion. Still cool, most commenters have said the same thing.
So why are you harping on this? The point here is not that anyone thinks you shouldn’t be part of the decision (except in the case of one-night stands, rape, or similar circumstances, but those don’t apply to what you’re saying anyway). The point is that if the woman doesn’t want you to be, you can’t force her to let you. As another commenter pointed out, if you have a good relationship, you will be included. If you aren’t, then the abortion is a symptom of deeper problems.
25 July 2009, on 2:19 pm
Consider this:
Your wife (or girlfriend) tells you that she’s pregnant, and wants to get an abortion.
Outcome 1) You agree, it’s her decision for whatever reasons.
Outcome 2) You tell her you will not allow it, and will do anything you can to prevent it.
Outcome 3) You discuss it.
Outcome 3a) the argument devolves into a fight, see Outcome 2)
Outcome 3b) She is convinced by your arguments and decides against an abortion.
Outcome 3c) She finds your arguments unpersuasive and decides to get an abortion.
In the case of outcome 3c, you have been included in the discussion, but you were unable to change her mind. Now what? Do you concede that she has the final say? Do you decide the bill in question is really a good idea after all? Do you badger her at every opportunity? Do you end the relationship?
25 July 2009, on 5:32 pm
Simply put, this is my biggest problem with abortion. Not that the man doesn’t have a say, but that he cannot have any legal say in the matter and allow fairness. If a man can overrule a woman’s right to choose, it is blatantly unfair to the woman. However, the reverse is also (in some cases) true.
Given that the woman is the one who has to carry the fetus to term, I have to side with men having no legal say. If you want kids, find someone else who wants them as well.
25 July 2009, on 7:39 pm
JM:
I’ve said what I came to say, it’s pretty much over sans shouting, & I’m not harping on anything.
25 July 2009, on 9:27 pm
from dictionary.com:
You made multiple posts mostly saying the same thing. You figure it out. And yes, I do get the irony of harping on about your harping.
25 July 2009, on 10:14 pm
Marley – I know what the word ‘harping’ means – & my answering people blatting about ‘what do you mean’ doesn’t constitute ‘harping’.
I’m detecting a motif here – rest assured, I’m not going to be semantically tricked into some misogynistic innuendo because some of you jackasses vote w/your knees.
Now sod off. This is getting tedious.
29 July 2009, on 6:40 am
Do you ever wonder why? I can only think of one possible reason, and that reason is fear. Fear of you.
I’m open to other suggestions, but in 99+% of cases, if a women in a relationship decides to get an abortion without telling the father, the reason she didn’t tell him is that she’s terrified of what he’ll do to her if he finds out.
30 July 2009, on 3:50 pm
It’s interesting how a child is the man’s responsibility during sex and after pregnancy, but he has absolutely no say in between. If you guys want to be consistent, you ought to ban child support.
30 July 2009, on 6:14 pm
Actually, Cody ^^ that is a ridiculous statement. Child support and abortion are two separate issues.
A child is most often the woman’s responsibility during sex and after pregnancy. A woman most often must be the one to use effective and safe birth control methods. A woman is the one who must endure nine months of carrying the child inside her, and the pain of giving birth. Then much of the time the woman must be there to take care of the child afterwards, especially if the father skips out. What about the women who were raped, Cody? What about one night stands where the child was an accident? What about the people who accidentally get pregnant but cannot afford another mouth to feed? There are many factors. For the god believers, there is only one way and you want to impose those standards on everyone.
31 July 2009, on 2:19 am
Cody;
Nice non-sequitur. As Stardust pointed out, these are two seperate issues. On top of being no mean logician, you’ve also indicated yourself to be a hopeless chauvanist, so good job there!