DRB, the redaction of the text probably began during the Babylonian exile, and continued on through the likes of Hezekiah and probably all the way down to about the 4th century BC. Again, once the presence of Yahweh was taken from them due to the exile, where did the Jews turn to for the source of holiness and a sense of nationalistic identity? The text of scripture. So once they dove into it deeper than they ever had, and saw that the original authors were naughty at times or critical of Israel and its origins, they redacted not only the bad language, but the greater effort of their redaction was to intercalate and/or rewrite major passages that puffed up (or dummied down, in later redactions) Israel’s importance in the Ancient Near East. A lot of new material was born in this period too (like the lesser prophets – Nahum, Malachi, etc.). But it wasn’t just textual. Along with this was born a strict adherence to Torah (”the teaching”), and so that’s where all the ridiculous holiness rules came about, which is the part most Christians focus on (maybe they don’t understand textual criticism, or maybe they can’t read, take your pick). And from this we later get all the Davidic King hoopla which culminates in Jesus. The Jews of the 1st century AD were trying to re-live the glory days of King David, but ultimately Jesus failed to take the throne by (supposedly) allowing himself to die. (Hence the disciples’ constant nagging – “When will you restore the kingdom?”). Anyway, that tradition of finding god through the act(s) of becming more “holy” has found its way down through all those years, wars, and territories and now you have rednecks in Texas who use the Old Testament as the primary source for teaching science class…

Short answer to “when” – my guess would be ca. 7th through 4th century BC, during and after Babylonian exile. Not quite Hellenistic, but almost. I believe the text in its final, “received” form and the rules governing Jewish holiness and purity were already set in motion when Alexander the Great came through on his way east in 334 BC, which ushered in Hellenism. Christianity is essentially a master borrower of Jewish messianism sprinkled with a tad of Hellenistic mystery cults (read the opening chapter to John and you’ll see what I mean), so when I talk of the Jews’ move to holiness, I’m lumping Xians in with them. Xianity was essentially bolted on top of Judaism anyway, at least in the beginning.

Also, if you think about it, the Greeks’ power was so immense, and the people had just returned from Persia under Cyrus, so you think the Jews would have bent to Alexander’s wishes instead of risking another deportation and/or conquest, and that is where I think the Jewish authorities began to shake hands with Hellenism and where a lot of hybrid religious views spawned. Again, some of the scholarship backs this up, but not all of it.

I don’t got no admin rights here (I’m not even sure I have them on my own blog–polrant@blogspot.com–but come visit and I will tell you where you can find Mr. heddle, he is one tricky cuss to pin down, a Calvinist. He’s over at “dispatches from the culture wars” on Science Blogs, I think you might get a kick out of him.

democommie, No, my last name isn’t “Heddle.” If you’re a site admin, take a look at my email address and you’ll see. As far as a lack of “giz,” I think you’re referring to fertility rites or ceremonies? I studied this one a lot back in seminary. It proved to be a dead end for a while, but the answer was under my nose the whole time. It’s the Old Testament. Its authors (or, in this case, “redactors”), were prudish, for lack of a better word. They edited out words like “shit” (yes, it’s in some versions of the Hebrew texts), “fuck” (yes, it’s in Jeremiah), “fart” (yes, it’s in Ezekiel), and others. The funniest one is where Saul goes into a cave and David catches him “covering his feet.” Well, that’s where your pants/robes go when you’re taking a shit (think about it). Anyway, the redactors thought that Yahweh mandated total holiness and purity, which he apparently does in the text. The problem was the Babylonian exile. They were taken from their “promised land” (which they supposedly obtained through conquest) and they no longer had the metaphysical presence of Yahweh with them because the temple was sacked and destroyed as they were leaving, so while in exile they gravitated to holiness/purity and toward the text of scripture. Since the first writers of the Hebrew scriptures were more “liberal,” the redactors felt the necessity to “clean up” some of the bad language and so inserted euphemisms like “covering the feet” in lieu of “defecating” and “whoring herself” instead of “fucking” etc. etc. I believe this “holiness tradition” carried forward into the New Testament and beyond, and into today’s fundagelical traditions. That’s my theory, anyway. Some of the scholarship backs this, but certainly not all of it. Curiously, you have some rebellious groups of ancient Israelites who were naughty and worshiped Asherah and his (sexual) union with Yahweh in naughty ways. This is verified in numerous archaeological strata from WITHIN Israel’s (ancient) boundaries. Which begs the question — just how widespread were the Yahwistic fertility cults? One of the inscriptions was found within a stone’s toss of the temple site, which of course puts some doubt on the biblical account of Israel’s reforms. Why would “Israelites” a century or so after the “reforms” and so close to the temple be worshiping more than one god, especially by way of group orgiastic erotica? So yeah, I have my doubts (this isn’t the only reason, though).

It seems like a lot of folks read the Bible and dis it because it’s silly (and it is), but for me, the history and archaeology just don’t line up. At least that’s what opened the doorway to doubt.

Fritzy, I’ll try to stop here often. I majored in Hebrew and OT exegesis, but was obligated to take some NT crap in order to graduate (I never liked the NT much). I had a class on “extra-canonical works,” and there was a big section on 1 Enoch, so naturally this post was interesting to me. I’ve been lurking here for a couple months, but this post was too cool to stay quiet about.

As I’ve posted many times here on GifS, the book that, for me, really started exposing the crack in the metaphorical “Cosmic Egg”, was Lloyd M. Graham’s “Deceptions and Myths of the Bible”.

It’s incredible, at least to me, how so much, totally made-up, ignorant bullshit, contrived by such obviously Scientifically ignorant (Flat Earthers) and, very often, only marginally literate bronze age boneheads, could eventually saturate the entire world with such total claptrap; all the way up to today’s manifestly insane, Nuclear weapons toting, religiously dominated world; too often ruled over by totally fucktard, egotistical and maniacal leaders.

I’ll throw in, as well…just guessing, of course…the initially desert brain fried, and probably, in addition, shamanistic drug and alchohol saturated factors.
Oh yeah…let’s not forget that wonderful brainwashed tactic of always blaming the victim with the usual “fear and guilt” motivation. The Everyone fucking bastards!

You do realize, folks, just how “lucky” we atheists are, to have…SOMEHOW…emerged, relatively unscathed, from such an interminably old, World-wide infected, overwhelmingly humongous, form of Sado-Masochism.

[rapidly blinks one eye, whilst repeating Émile Coué's]:
“Every day, in every way…I’m getting better and better!”…
ROIT!…
And now, I think I’ll go for a walk.

Interesting take, especially regarding the storm gods! I always love to read/listen to the thoughts of those with formal religious training who are now atheists. When I tell believers that I stopped believing after I read the Bible, I get incredulous scowls from sharper ones, and confused stares from the slower ones in the bunch. Both types typically respond that I didn’t “read it right.”

DRB;

I think SOME religions started as a political tool–to build cohesiveness in groups that were not prone to cohesiveness (i.e. nomadic desert tribes) while others were used to explain the nature of the self or the universe (i.e. the pagans). I think the later eventually morphed into the former, or were either assimilated or virtually destroyed by the former. Even the “noble” and “peaceful” Buddhism, which appears to be an example of the latter, and which many argue is a philosophy and not a religion, has splintered into factions and is rife with bloodshed and politics.

Please tell me your last name is not “Heddle”, and make my day!

Can anyone offer an explanation for the fact that there’s no fertility giz in the christian religion?