Let’s rumble: Freud v Pope!
5 June 2009 by Naomi
From the Vatican, via San Diego6-TV online:
Vatican laments drop in confessions
VATICAN CITY (AP) – A Vatican official is lamenting that many faithful no longer confess their sins, and says some confuse a psychologist’s couch for a confessional booth.
Archbishop Mauro Piacenza has told Vatican Radio the sacrament of penance has been experiencing a “deep crisis” for decades. Piacenza, an official for the Vatican office on clergy, says fewer people distinguish between good and evil, and as a result don’t go to confession.
The archbishop said in the interview Tuesday that if faithful don’t have a sense of sin, they might “confuse” confession with “the couch of a psychologist or a psychiatrist.”
He says the Vatican plans to publish this year a kind of handbook on confession to drum up enthusiasm among Catholics toward the sacrament.
“Drum up enthusiasm”? We’re not talking about flagging interest in soccer or soap operas, guys. “A kind of handbook”? More like a “guilt primer”, I’m sure.
On the other hand, women are getting more substantial lessons in life, health, education, ethics, psychological well-being and legal protections from role models…in romance novels. Yeah, we’ve come a long way,baby, from the “bodice rippers” of the 70s. Now, rape is rape — not foreplay. Stalking is terrorism, not “intense attraction”. And wife-beating is what it is, not “discipline”.
However, sexual daydreams and fantasies are still okay. I’m sure Sigmund would agree.
5 June 2009, on 11:43 am
Freud v Pope: Old hut v funny hat.
5 June 2009, on 12:07 pm
“Stalking is terrorism, not “intense attraction”.”
Really? Tell that to the author of Twilight.
Still, it’s good to see people are getting actual help for their problems.
5 June 2009, on 12:54 pm
This is an interesting development. It was confession that actually sparked the flame that led to my own atheism, pretty early in life…I was 9 or 10, and trying to think up “sins” to confess to every week became more difficult and absurd. Which led to the realization that I was a basically decent human being, and once you make that leap, ceasing to fear the big sky-daddy isn’t far behind.
Plus the concept of “original sin” pissed me off from the get-go.
5 June 2009, on 2:21 pm
I remember going to confession when I was a little boy. To tell you the truth, I was very insecure about because (in my own mind at least) I hadn’t commited too many sins. I was afraid that the priest would think that I was wasting his time. I actually felt a lot of pressure to make up a few sins.
As far as the recent drop-off in confessions is concerned, I can’t help but conclude that a lot of it is the result of all the bad press the church has gotten of late concerning all the sexual abuse scandals. Maybe people feel dumb talking about their ‘impure thoughts’ to a guy in a dress who sodomizes little boys.
5 June 2009, on 3:27 pm
“But what do I know…I’m just another Dirty Fucking Hippy”
What!…”Well, at least your still Fucking?”…
and still trucking?
Seriously, Naomi…pardon my usual blabbing…
That stat you quoted reminds me of one of my old, perennial, big time “pet peeves” RE religion and man’s long historically insane waste of money and general resources.
At root, I contend, that all wars throughout history have always had religion, or tribal beliefs, as the PRIME…even if, Freudian sub-conscious-like…root cause of going to war, or invading another tribe’s territory. Often masked and mixed in with economic, natural resources, and other factors, of course.
In more modern times, huge amounts of “National Treasure” go into weapon production. In particular, what comes to my mind is related to the demise of the ‘Soviet Union’. In a completely Socialist economy, the wasted money on weaponry, especially things like Nuclear weapons…a totally insane waste (ala “MAD”)…sucks and depletes the money from, in essence…everyone; and NOBODY really profits from it.
Contrast that to, say, the United States, where the private weapons industry profits by annually sucking from the “National Treasure”; there are lots of people (stockholders?) who profit from the insane waste.
The selfish and greedy Capitalist motivation? [I'm Economics "neutral", by the way; no arguments...please!
As to the exact amount that the US has spent on just Nuclear weapons, alone; check the links below.]
Soooo…more Socialist oriented, “L-L-Liberal” (more “Fucking Hippy-like”?)…especially WAY less “Fundie-like Religious” countries…
like Sweden, f’rntance (OK, I’m half Swedish biased)…who’ve always remained comparatively neutral regarding Wars…going back, at least, RE the 20th Century Wars…and don’t invest in a humongous military “budget”; instead, invest in the welfare of the people.
Things like Universal Healthcare, including…DENTAL! (no mention of THAT big out of pocket cost in the current “Healthcare reform” debate!)…and other amenities, like substantial vacations…yada, yada.
Just sayin’?
Oh, and…Since I brought up Nuclear (or for any Fundie trolls…Nucular?);
Just to remind about the “madness” of it all…check out these links:
“MAD” as in “Mutual assured destruction”"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutually_assured_destruction
“Nuclear weapons and the United States”:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_weapons_and_the_United_States
And…(not even up to date!)…from Brookings Institute (August, 1998)…
“The U.S. Nuclear Weapons Cost Study Project”
http://www.brookings.edu/projects/archive/nucweapons/weapons.aspx
One more:
“NWIP FACT SHEET”
http://www.ippnw-students.org/NWIP/factsheets/money.html
And…ummm…”Have a nice day!…or…Life?”
5 June 2009, on 3:27 pm
“The archbishop said in the interview Tuesday that if faithful don’t have a sense of sin, they might “confuse” confession with “the couch of a psychologist or a psychiatrist.””
I’m already confused… does he mean the faithful are now telling their dreams to the priest instead of sins?
5 June 2009, on 4:49 pm
Today the “4 Horsemen” are Harris, Hitchens, Dawkins & Dennett.
Back in the day (19th Century) they were: Darwin, Marx, Freud, Nietzsche.
Some say the problem with Freud is that he’s just not
testicletestable.5 June 2009, on 6:12 pm
Sorry , Naomi…in my above comment, I forgot to reference that I was ‘triggered’ into making the above comment by YOUR comment on Bob’s previous Post. I wanted to post it here since it referred more to you, specifically.
[If that makes any sense.]
6 June 2009, on 12:29 am
ChuckA, you’ve always been welcome to say whatever you liked. And you have. Of course, it’s possible you’ve pulled a punch of two; we’d never know…unless you admitted it. So have at it, as always.
Yes, the stats that are linked off Bob’s post are wonky but I love them. Although, the extrapolations by the interim group (re: religious observance) come from even deeper; I certainly didn’t see them. Suffice it to say: religion leads to cultural strife and external war which leads to poverty and even more strife. I’d like to pass a law that every time the religionistas claim that they love everyone and that their brand of delusion leads to harmony, we get to waterboard them with a 55-gallon barrel of STFU. And I’ll help. Let’s see if they still love teh torture…
Testable or not, JJR, Freud (and Jung and Adler, et al) opened the door to research and treatment of psychological problems. Sadly, it is sometimes faulty, sometimes fraudulent and never guaranteed. Luckily, I have benefitted from it throughout my life. When things get to an unmanageable stage, I get a “tune-up”. I am proud to admit that. I wish more people would do the same.
Orzo, I think it means that the catlicks are skipping confession. What a fucking anachronism! And it joins the rhythm-method on the dusty shelves where all backward ideology and dogma belong.
Brooklyn Boy, that’s an excellent point. “Father, heal thyself FIRST!” Hypocricy hinders respect and duty-filled devotion, doesn’t it?
6 June 2009, on 9:00 am
Maybe the Arch”asshole”Bishop is afraid he won’t have enough images to whack off to?!?!
6 June 2009, on 12:09 pm
I very seriously doubt that fewer people distinguish between good and evil, and as a result don’t go to confession.
Rather, I think that fewer people believe that confession of one’s “sins” to a priest is worth the time and effort – especially when doing so only ups the guilt quotient.
HRCC leaders simply do not understand that decades of officially covering up for the sins of their priests has damaged the church’s reputation and the efficacy of their rites. Who in their right mind would want to confess their sins to a priest who has a host of bosses who actively cover up rape and child abuse?
HRCC has serious management issues. JCSuperstar is no longer a compelling mascot.
7 June 2009, on 2:51 am
“A Vatican official is lamenting that many faithful no longer confess their sins, and says some confuse a psychologist’s couch for a confessional booth.”
More likely they simply see it for what it is: Compulsive obsequiousness on the part of the leity, fetishistic voyeurism on the part of the priest.
“Piacenza, an official for the Vatican office on clergy, says fewer people distinguish between good and evil, and as a result don’t go to confession.”
Or they’ve gotten BETTER at distinguishing between good and evil and realize most of the things labelled as “sins” are morally arbitrary.
“The archbishop said in the interview Tuesday that if faithful don’t have a sense of sin, they might “confuse” confession with “the couch of a psychologist or a psychiatrist.””
Or they might move on and *gasp* leave the church behind all together.
I’ve got a pretty good sense of sin (it’s total bullshit) and can honestly say I’ve never confused the confessional booth for a psychologists couch. I have known plenty of people who have sought out the couch of a psychologist or psychiatrist entirely because of the church, however.
“He says the Vatican plans to publish this year a kind of handbook on confession to drum up enthusiasm among Catholics toward the sacrament.”
Oh, for fuck’s sake! Know when to cut your losses.
7 June 2009, on 2:10 pm
My favorite confession of all time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCKxro6s7e8
7 June 2009, on 8:38 pm
Thank you, democommie! I had just left KA’s latest post, wherein one or more of his commenters (all males) were discussing sexual congress with lesser beings. And I had used up my quota of ewe/you.
I reposted it and even KA loved it.
*Maybe there is something to this deity thing after all.*
Nope. Just huge coincidence! Which keeps life interesting…