“What is it about atheists?”
4 March 2009 by Stardust
In the comment thread of my post titled “Crosses to Bear” at my personal blog, a troll has come a sniffing around and while trying to appear to be neutral or an indifferent atheist, I smell a fundie. Here is what FreeThinker (who doesn’t have a blog of his/her own) wrote:
Like most atheists, the issue of people believing in God bothers them greatly. What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don’t believe even exists?! What causes us to do that?
Atheists, attribute their intentions as caring for those poor, delusional people…to help them realize their hope was completely ill-founded.
To be honest, They also seem to have another motive. As they challenge those who believe in God, They are deeply curious to see if they could be convinced otherwise.
Part of the quest is to become free from the question of God (so it seems). If they could conclusively prove to believers that they were wrong, then the issue is off the table, and they would be free to go about their life.
God believers, like I suspect FreeThinker to be, never address the subject of the post nor answer the questions that are raised about their god being a sadistic bastard. They divert attention away from the topic at hand, and start on other topics that have nothing to do with the subject matter being discussed.
My entire response to him can be read here. The last part of my response to him was:
No, the quest is to get you folks to believe what you do, go to your mythology temples and stop trying to interject your religion into our secular government and stop pushing your version of god beliefs into our faces.
We are free to go about our lives already, as we do. But we cannot sit back and hide away. We are here, and theists are just going to have to get used to it.
If the issue of this god crap was off the table, then all of humankind would have a lot more time to deal with the real problems of the world and would work together so much better without the fundies worrying about who they are going to try to “save” from their evil gods.
I have directed FreeThinker here to GifS to read what other atheists have to say in response to his questions and comment.
4 March 2009, on 1:28 pm
Well put.
4 March 2009, on 1:57 pm
And what’s the deal with airline food?
Silly me, I thought you were about to do a Jerry Seinfeld bit.
4 March 2009, on 2:09 pm
I still dislike the word Atheist.
If it was defined as not believing in a mythical being, then it would not be so bad.
Atheists stand their ground against god believers because STUPIDITY no matter how good natured is difficult to tolerate.
4 March 2009, on 3:28 pm
STUPIDITY no matter how good natured is difficult to tolerate.”
I know. Like when people go against clear scientific findings and say:
Matter is eternal, or
Matter is self-created, or
Matter can pre exist itself chronologically and physically, and
There really can be an infinite regress of cause.
Stupid? Ugh, tell me about it. Difficult to tolerate? No doubt! But what can you do? Atheists are here and we’ll just have to live with that fact.
4 March 2009, on 3:51 pm
makarios, it’s much more difficult to tolerate adult people who have imaginary friends who they believe they see in McDonald’s restaurants talking to people (I read your blog, you Christians are so melodramatic with the stories they invent. And your bit that the atheist is guilty of killing your ancient imaginary zombie friend Jesus is a hoot!)
I’m tempted to do another Lion Feed.
4 March 2009, on 5:46 pm
No, the quest is to get you folks to believe what you do, go to your mythology temples and stop trying to interject your religion into our secular government and stop pushing your version of god beliefs into our faces.
Precisely!
4 March 2009, on 5:47 pm
Other people believing in god bothers me little. I relly don’t care all that much about other peoples beliefs. I do care about their actions. Which by the way is the only thing that leads to results. When the religious insinuate themselves into places they do not belong then I object. In fact I’ll wager a bet that the religious fully realized years ago that prayer did NOT work and knew they had to take action in order to get things done.
We atheists do not deal with the things we can not prove and as is well recognized amongst us most of us do not claim that a god doesn’t exist. We do not claim a belief in a god either and most of us are content with that and if given proof or some tangible fact that a god exists then we would be ok with that. I do not see any signs or facts rgarding god so I would need to become a hypocrite and liar to believe “Just In Case”. I also consider that subconsciously most religious people understand that their belief is subject to arbitrary reasoning and on the surface presents problems of truthfulness. They default or defer to others lest they make a decision that is not religiously correct yet is still morally OK. Therein lies the problem. Religion is not truth based it is belief based. I’ll Pass.
Stardust
I think you’re right about freethinker being a religious one. His/Her reasoning is too belief like to be a non-believer. Or the person is relatively new and young and trying to be PC which never helps anyone.
Makarios said….I know. Like when people go against clear scientific findings and say:
Matter is eternal, or
Matter is self-created, or
Matter can pre exist itself chronologically and physically, and
There really can be an infinite regress of cause……
What is that some sort of refutation that proves god existence? Or is it just another stab at sarcasm that is ridiculous. It isn’t even scientific observations to make statements of that nature. Unless you’re religious and need to muddle what science really states. Sheesh.
4 March 2009, on 5:57 pm
Isn’t it amazing how religious liars can take absolute ignorance, run it through the clanking, stripped gears their fears and cowardice, and turn it into absolute certainty which everyone in the universe should acknowledge and worship.
It’s like spinning straw into gold, or polishing a dog turd into a shiny diamond! It’s alchemy, or maybe…it’s…it’s…A Miracle!
4 March 2009, on 7:34 pm
While I do visit here I don’t often comment, but since I no longer visit NoGod I felt an itch.
I toiled for years thinking I had to defer to the theists. I kept hearing, “You have to respect their beliefs.” “One mustn’t citicize.” I just kept quiet and swore under my breath.
I have no respect for their beliefs and I think people need to challenge them at every turn, including the moderates (that is, the enablers).
I would like to say that I don’t care what they believe, but I often find myself contemptuous of such stupidity.
I wish I were as brave as Hitchens:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xx_ov2NiNo4
4 March 2009, on 8:15 pm
In the comment thread at my blog Xatheist writes:
My response was :“It’s not “god’s existence” that bothers the atheist because we cannot be bothered by something for which there is absolutely zero evidence for the existence of. God is a figment of human imagination. Those who “find” this god simply choose to start believing for whatever reasons, fear of death, difficulties coping with circumstances in life, etc. There is no more a god “pursuing” us than there is a boogeyman living under our bed or in our closet. The idea of an all-knowing god who sees you when your sleeping, going potty, masturbating, whatever is ludicrous. The idea of an all knowing, all seeing god who keeps track of billions of people past, present and future is absurd.
The truth is that nothing happens without human action or inaction. If humans don’t help after disasters strike, no god comes. If people don’t take their sick children and themselves to the doctor, no help comes. If you are stuck on a deserted island and no humans are around and you are in need of life and death help…you die. No gods come. None.
Believing you are “being pursued” or chased by some sadistic megalomaniac magic man who lives in another dimension is absolutely and utterly absurd.
The “giving in” you and others write about is that some just decide to join the sheeple herd of self delusion because they cannot stand the fact that we are alone in the vastness of the chaotic universe.They cannot deal with the fact that even the Earth and Sun one day will not exist…poof…gone. Your gods that you create for yourselves cannot stop it.”
Gawd, these people just don’t give up! They don’t even see that they are proving our point about what really bothers us…their smugness and self-righteous know-it-allness. “Just because I say it, then it is true.”
4 March 2009, on 8:36 pm
Hey, I call dibs on the next post on the topic, since makarios actually DOES make a point – we rarely discuss the meat of the carrot-on-a-stick incentive the religious have. (I’m a-savin’ it fer Sunday, of course.)
5 March 2009, on 12:09 am
Yeah, Obeah…referring to your Hitchens video link…
It’s always amazing how the religious…especially any clerics…stubbornly, and smugly stick to their mindless traditions, with no apparent regard to even bringing up any logical, Scientific defense for…in that clip’s case…circumcision; and the African-American (Black?) Xtian quotes “St. Paul” without batting an eye; as if the mythical Paul is to be taken as some kind of unquestioned source for any kind of “normal” behavior.
After so many bouts of arguing with fundies on this, and occasionally, Austin Cline’s site; I’ve come to the conclusion that pointing someone to selected YouTube clips can accomplish much more than endless typing.
There are so many great clips of Dawkins, etc. on the Web…yada, yada.
Here’s two of my favs Re Hitchens; which cover a lot of the basic reason that religious belief simply doesn’t stand up against any real, contemporary, consideration of what we NOW know RE the Cosmos.
[Of course, facts...ultimately...don't really mean much to the terminally brainwashed sheeple!]
Anyway…check out these, somewhat older, clips…?
“Christopher Hitchens – Religion Illustrated (1 of 2)” [length: 8:40]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vueL6iEipsE&feature=related
“Christopher Hitchens – Religion Illustrated (2 of 2)” [length: 5:01]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nc2nfIUMSmI&feature=related
Of course, once someone is on a relevant YouTube page…if they’re at all open to any contrary arguments regarding their beliefs…other videos MIGHT attract their attention.
[I was just checking my "Documents" folder...I've got a notepad file containing almost every comment I've made on GifS since 2006! So much typing...and probably NOTHING was accomplished...at least RE any changing of hard-core fundie mind-sets!]
5 March 2009, on 12:09 am
KA^^ Can’t wait to see what you have in store for the “Sunday Sermon”!
Thanks for the clips, Chuck!
5 March 2009, on 12:59 am
What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don’t believe even exists?! What causes us to do that?
Perhaps it is the desire to tell the truth. Our society puts a lot of stock in truth-telling. When we see someone lying we tend to want to expose the lie and bring out the truth. Some sort of survival mechanism we developed along our evolutionary path?
There’s also the aspect of wanting to protect ourselves from the consequences of too many people living in a delusional state around us. Since people tend to act upon their beliefs we would prefer to have people acting on the basis of well-founded beliefs.
For instance, there is a case on trial in Canada right now where a man stabbed and dismembered a young man sitting next to him on a bus. The reason this man gives for such a violent and unjustified act was that he believed God told him that the man sitting next to him was evil and must die. Now this is an extreme case, admittedly, but if the belief in the existence of God was not so completely reinforced by leaders in our society then this individual would have more reason to question this “message from God”, seek help from medical experts and perhaps not kill an innocent young man.
Besides, who says atheists “spend so much time” on these efforts to counter the myth. I guess it depends on what else you have to do with your time. Most people spend a great deal of time sitting in front of a TV for hours being entertained and sold useless products. Spending time refuting myths is more entertaining for me than watching some pathetically written sitcom, at least during this miserable winter weather. In the summer I’ll be engaging in much more enjoyable outdoor activities.
To each his own. I won’t knock your entertainment if you don’t knock mine.
5 March 2009, on 11:39 am
I won’t knock your entertainment if you don’t knock mine.
Nice comment, Lynda, and to the last line I say, Ramen!
5 March 2009, on 2:21 pm
“What is it about atheists that we would spend so much time, attention, and energy refuting something that we don’t believe even exists?! What causes us to do that?”
I call straw-man. I don’t personally know of any atheist who refutes the existance of gawd. We lack belief in the supernatural and have accepted that as part of our personal belief system, seeing no need to refute any gawd.
What many believers see as “refuting” gawd (and most certainly the individual posting this comment is a b-leever) is simply the atheist providing an often exasperated explanation for why we no longer desire the b-leever’s prostelizations. It is a proclamation of our desire to finally see b-leevers cease and desist their relentless meddling into the personal lives of others.
Let me ask: What is it about believers that you would spend so much time, attention and energy trying to prove something you already claim to believe in? I know you do this, because I used to go to church–I used to be a believer–I know the amount of time devoted to “affirming” your beliefs (a la the Cowardly Lion “I do believe in Gawd above…IdoIdoIdo…”)
And why would you spend so much time attention and energy trying to prove something to me I have made quite clear to you is silly at best, deadly at worst?
8 March 2009, on 3:36 am
[...] “What is it about atheists?” [...]
8 March 2009, on 2:46 pm
Matter is eternal, or
Matter is self-created, or
Matter can pre exist itself chronologically and physically
If someone believes this, is it any different than someone who believes that Gawd walks and talks with them?
That “Gawd is their copilot”?
That Gawd made something out of nothing, including himself.
An Atheist says I do not know or understand, a Gawd believer cannot be in the dark and attributes what is unknown to Gawd.