Clinging to wishful thinking
16 February 2009 by Stardust
First of all, I want to say that my heart goes out to all the families who lost loved ones in the recent airplane crash near Buffalo, NY. We can only imagine the horror of those final moments for the passengers, and also for the people on the ground when the plane dropped like a rock from the skies and onto someone’s home.
Today, there is a story in the news that actually comes out and says why people cling to religion in these times of disaster…they cannot accept that their loved ones have died and cling to the fantasies of everlasting life in order to cope.
Backed by a giant projector screen carrying the words “Prayer for all affected by Flight 3407,” the Rev. David Kofahl urged his 70-member congregation at Sunday services to turn to God, taking solace in the Christian faith’s promise of everlasting life.
“No one can take away the horror of what happened, but what a wonderful thing it is to know that this life is not all there is,” said Kofahl, who’d visited the site Saturday to offer counseling to emergency workers.
While many do question the existence of a god at times like this, they still congregate to churches, looking for solace and wanting to hear someone tell them the comforting fantasies that it was a good thing after all that their family and friends died because they are “in a better place”.
Those who turned out for services at other churches also had the crash in their thoughts. At Clarence Center United Methodist Church, worshippers held hands during a service honoring victims, and at Emmanuel Baptist Church, the Rev. Terry Bowman led prayers for the victims and their families.
“It’s a very caring community, and one that’s in shock but coming together in prayer,” Bowman said.
Humans don’t need to “gather in prayer” to some imaginary sky daddy for comfort. However, they do what they need to do by gathering together with friends, family and others who care. This is where the true comfort comes. No god comes down from the sky to comfort people, no god that is good would create a world full of so much heartache. For many, though, they still cling to their imaginary, absent “heavenly father”. They still feel the need to delude themselves that this life isn’t all their is. Most humans simply cannot deal with that fact of being human.
The way I have dealt with the grief of losing people I love is to let myself be angry, pissed off at nature or whatever. Let it out. And then cling to my friends and family who are still here and then celebrate the life of the person we have lost. The cherish the memories of that person that will be with us till the end of our own life. That seems most dignified to me that wishing to magically meet up with that person someday in a magical place.
It puzzles me that people wouldn’t wake up at a time like this and realize there is no grand puppetmaster who controls all things and protects us. No god saving one plane and allowing another to crash.
In a recent comment thread, Rick points out what we see repeatedly, people praising their imaginary friend when in actuality it was pilot skill that saved those people who crashed into the Hudson River not too long ago, and now it seems to be pilot error this time in the crash of Flight 3407. Human action or inaction, human error are to be credited or blamed when good or bad things happen. No god is involved. No god comes.
16 February 2009, on 12:06 pm
We can only imagine the despair of the Jews of Europe during the holocaust – waiting and praying in vain for Jehova to intervene. Some claim god absented himself from humanity so that such evil could take place. Some claim that god himself caused the evil so humanity would have a benchmark against which to measure all other evil. And some have come to believe that all evil is somehow a blessing – that horrible suffering and outrageous inhumanity is a goodness if only we could see god’s plan.
Humans are the source of evil. Humans are the source of goodness.
No god comes.
16 February 2009, on 3:04 pm
Prayer…a totally delusional and superstitious waste of time. Empathizing compassionately with others, is a whole other matter.
“Our thoughts…(skip the delusional prayers)…are with…(yada, yada)” would certainly be more honestly appropriate coming from the usual blabbers in the media.
Pardon a little OT comment, Stardust…
Happy President’s Day? (Today, Feb. 16th)…and sidestepping empathy and compassion for a moment…
Reading the Yahoo News today, I’m reminded of just how immense the problems are that Obama is facing.
Just a couple of International examples:
“British, French nuclear subs collide in Atlantic”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090216/ap_on_re_eu/eu_britain_sub_collision
Just what the World’s Oceans need!
And…more directly related to fucking moronic religion:
“Islamic law to be imposed in parts of Pakistan”
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090216/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan
Now, pardon a mini-rant?…
Anyone who doesn’t see the connection between ALL the various guises of religions…particularly the Abrahamic variety…and the total insanity going on in this cockamamie World, must have had some permanent damage done to the rational part of their brains.
What the fuck is ANYONE doing, spilling blood and treasure, not only in Iraq, but in Afghanistan…and Pakistan? Fundy Islamists understand Democracy…especially Secular Democracy…about as much as your pet dog or cat.
(Actually, I think cats understand it better…?)
A huge portion of the World is obviously still living in the Dark Ages…and that includes our homegrown variety of Xtian Fundie morons.
I’m sure I’m not alone in this matter…and…I just remembered…it’s another (fucking) Monday.
What’s that?…
“Smile, Chuck; and the whole World smiles with you? (feigns checking yellowing teeth)…
and Happy (fucking) President’s Day?”
Yeah…but somehow, I still think we’re ALL getting fucked…
in the ass! And on that note…
“My thoughts…and wishful thinking…are with…
my ASS?”
16 February 2009, on 4:19 pm
I recently lost a friend who was in a random car accident (hit by some asshole going the wrong way on the freeway). The Catholics at his wake and funeral were inconsolable. As an atheist, I could handle the question of why far better than others who wondered why god would kill a good man. I miss my friend and I’m glad I knew him. His life made others’ better. We are lucky to be here, and if people want more than “this life” they are greedy.
16 February 2009, on 4:51 pm
cay, I’m sorry about your friend. That’s a real tragedy. I think you are looking at it realistically. Yes, it’s sad, yes it pisses you off that some idiot going the wrong way on the freeway took your friend’s life. But I think that it is easier to just acknowledge what is reality. Be glad for knowing the person, we can be glad for the time we have had in this world and consider ourselves lucky for ever being born. The ones who cling to the fantasy of everlasting life seem much more sad than those of us who accept our fate. I think it’s because deep down they know that this is all their is and they don’t want to accept their own mortality nor the mortality of their loved ones.
They can beat on their chests and pull their hair out and scream, cry, pray and try to deny reality. But the truth is, this is all we have. Here and now, we were non existent before we were born, we will return to non-existence. It’s very, very sad and to think that any god would have purposely created things this way, for people to lose their loved ones and live the rest of their lives missing them is ludicrous.
17 February 2009, on 2:00 am
This question comes up over and over when there are large tragedies, and I still don’t have a good answer.
If secularism rose to prominence in the US, where would we gather? What moral leaders would we ask to speak to the crowed to help them? I would like to know how mostly secular nations work. Has anyone been to the mostly secular nations during their times of crisis? How do the Fins, or the Norwegians handle senseless tragedy?
As an atheist, I want people to give up silly fantasies. I want them to embrace reality, and I campaign for it often. Yet, I wonder what we would replace the social network we have with. As much evil and horror, the churches, mosques, and temples do quite nicely at bringing a community together. There is strength in a community that comes together often. How can we start that kind of community in a loose nit group of people that have one common thread of disbelief among them? And on the few occasions that you can herd all us cats into one room, its usually to bash religion.
I’m not going to start over with this, its kind of rambling, but I think I just came to understand those who caution against having a society loose its faith too quickly. I still hope it goes away soon, just not so quickly it leaves a vacuum. Nature abhors a vacuum.
17 February 2009, on 1:37 pm
Revyloution asks: If secularism rose to prominence in the US, where would we gather?
We would all gather together as human beings. Coming together to comfort one another in times of crisis. No god fantasies are necessary. Though people run to their churches when tragedy strikes, the real comfort comes from one another. And leaders do not need to invoke the name of a great imaginary friend in order to bring reassurance and comfort. They do not need to lie.
I have a couple of friends in Sweden, a fairly secular nation and they deal with tragedy quite well. The true comfort from them comes from human action. The way citizens in their society come together when bad things happen. When a loved one dies, they turn to their families and friends for support, which is what god believers do also. They come together to be together, their god does not bring them comfort…other people do.
I wonder what we would replace the social network we have with
Like I said. Nothing would change. We will do what humans always do and seek comfort in one another. The thing that is missing (god) is always absent anyway. God believers try to make sense of it via their religion, but they never can understand the “mystery” of the great lie. Without the religious beliefs, people would do what they always do, come together and embrace one another.
As much evil and horror, the churches, mosques, and temples do quite nicely at bringing a community together. There is strength in a community that comes together often.
Strength of coming together in the lie of religion? Using an imaginary crutch is strength? I don’t think so. And as for the comfort, I have seen so many Christians fall apart in times of tragedy in their own lives and community and national tragedies. Their god and religion doesn’t seem to help them cope much of the time and when they believe it does help to believe in an imaginary friend or a magical afterlife, they are not really coping but lying to themselves to avoid reality. Their say the prayer “Lord help me to accept the things I cannot change” and yet churches and synagogues, mosques teach people to not accept reality, but to make up lies to deal with things.
How can we start that kind of community in a loose nit group of people that have one common thread of disbelief among them?
I’m not sure that is necessary to keep dividing ourselves into groups in order to cope with crisis, and the hardships of life, etc. We are all human beings. When tragedy fell upon New Orleans, for example, people came together as one no matter what religious beliefs, or non-beliefs. No one stopped to question if someone was a believer or not. People from all walks of life and all different worldviews flocked to New Orleans to help as human beings.
I think I just came to understand those who caution against having a society loose its faith too quickly. I still hope it goes away soon, just not so quickly it leaves a vacuum. Nature abhors a vacuum.
Christianity is fading gradually. It will take time, and most likely will be replaced by something else of human invention. If religion disappeared from our society immediately, it would have to by humans losing their beliefs and so I don’t think that there would be a “vacuum”, as you say. Human beings will still be here, our lives will still be here, our personal values, our cultures, out families, etc. I don’t see a vacuum happening simply because people give up fantasies. People will still count on other humans in times of need and tragedy. It’s how it’s always been, religion or no religion.
17 February 2009, on 3:56 pm
Gawd saved one plane. Glory! Gawd killed everyone on board another. Glory!
I love xian logic.
17 February 2009, on 7:14 pm
Man this just gets to be too much sometimes. I remember trying to believe about god’s mysterious plan when such things happened. It was futile to me. I never did buy it. I would shrug my shoulders and think, “Fuck glad I wasn’t onboard”. Also of note is the idea that most of my believing friends didn’t really believe it was the hand of god involved. That made it easier for me to fully separate myself from all things religious.
KR
Good to see you Hope all is well.
17 February 2009, on 8:48 pm
Capt Mal Reynolds, Good Ship Serenity:
“God’s a long wait for a train don’t never come.”
17 February 2009, on 10:21 pm
Just a note to Revyloution’s question.
Stardust got it right on the nose. Trouble has passed while this blog has been online, and in those times, we have come together here. People who’ve been to this blog for a while would remember when Sean, a wonderful blogger to this site, passed away. Did any of us suddenly turn to churches, seeking solace? Mmm… As I recall, no, nobody did. Instead, we came together here and reminisced. We comforted each other in our own secular ways, without the need for “prayer circles” and other such crap.
The same thing would continue to happen in other instances. It really is all a human thing. Have you ever hugged a crying friend? Somehow you were able to do it without invoking a god. Why? Because when you have compassion, you don’t need any other influence. You just act as a caring person would.
18 February 2009, on 12:10 am
Kate, I thought of Sean too when I read Stardust’s post.
Jimmer, life is good. How are you?
18 February 2009, on 12:16 am
Thanks for putting that in perspective. I think that living as one of very few atheists in a small community has left me with a tendency to deal with tragedy in a very private unconnected way. When there has been tragedy near me, everyone consoles themselves with the trappings of their faith, which has just made me feel more alienated.
Its not like that now. I know many more atheists, and our small town is growing up. I think I had one glass of wine too much, and was morosely feeling sorry for a little kid who never felt connected to the group of younglife members that seemed to make up the entire world.
18 February 2009, on 1:40 am
KR
I’m well. Thank you
I just read on the Freedom from religion website that they installed a billboard at 8280 Folsom Blvd Sacramento. Looks like I have a mission to attend to in the next day or so. If the rain stops. I’m going over there on Thursday anyhow but I just gotta look before someone tears it down or something stupid goes on.
18 February 2009, on 3:09 am
Revyloution, you must not assume that churches are the only place where people gather in times of crisis, nor must you assume that secularism can provide any less degree of assistance than any church.
Example: During the AIDS crisis of the 80s and 90s few churches came to the aid of gays who were stricken – and far less help came from any level of government. We turned to our own social networks – to our friends and our caring families. We set up our own assistance programs, our own legal programs, our own advocacy groups who held medical institutions and practicioners to their ideals of service.
If secularism rises to promince in the US we would gather where we gather now: at the homes of friends and family, in the neighborhood bar or in the workplace, or in the large spaces like Daley Plaza or Grant Park in Chicago or Strawberry Fields in New York.
If secularism rises to prominence in the US our moral leaders would be the same moral leaders we have now: the elders of our social communities, the elder members of our families, those friends we know and respect for their moral authority.
It is a grave error to hold religion more effective in times of crisis than those fellow human beings who care for us individually. The institution of any church does not care for human welfare more than individual human beings care for other individual human beings.
18 February 2009, on 10:46 am
People who’ve been to this blog for a while would remember when Sean, a wonderful blogger to this site, passed away.
Kate, I was thinking about Sean last night when I was playing “The Rainbow Connection” on my piano. (Remember his post about waking up with that song on his mind.) Actually, I think about him every time I play that song. Sometimes I tear up too. There’s no sense to be made of it.
Revyloution,
Vacuums are amazingly useful. I’d like to vacuum up all the horrendous idiotic fantasies that continue to oppress and abuse people and shoot them off into space. Stardust is right. Humans come together to remember their football stars in football stadiums. Communities gather together to have fairs and town hall meetings. We gather together for fireworks in parks. There are many places to congregate as a community. Those are the places we’ll use for times of grief when all the churches have been changed into pet shelters or health clinics or some other USEFUL place.
18 February 2009, on 10:49 am
OT, for those interested in the Atheist Bus Ad Campaign, some news coming from Ottawa in Canada where the atheist bus ad was rejected for display on city buses. One city councilor is not going to let it slip by…. http://www.ottawacitizen.com/Life/Cullen+demands+review+atheist/1295922/story.html
18 February 2009, on 1:08 pm
Actually, there was an instance in which three Jewish scholars in Auschwitz put God on trial for breaking his covenant with the Jewish people. The verdict? Guilty.
Eli Wiesel (who witnessed the event first-hand) wrote a play called The Trial of God based on this event, and it was also made into a rather good film called God on Trial. It’s pretty harrowing stuff.
And it’s very interesting that they always assume that their loved ones ended up in the “better place”, rather than the “worse place”…
18 February 2009, on 1:52 pm
Because when you have compassion, you don’t need any other influence. You just act as a caring person would.
Exactly. And that is what even the religious are doing. If their god existed, and believers had this great “relationship” with him, her, or it, then that god would be enough. But people seeking out other people is what everyone does in times of sadness and trouble.
19 February 2009, on 6:02 pm
The sensible next step for these better-place people is to get together and commit suicide, so as to get to that better place sooner. Please, the sooner the better. I’ll lone them my firearms collection. Just go.