Comments on: Church opposes Reproductive Health Care Act in Philippines http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/09/02/church-opposes-reproductive-health-care-act-in-philippines/ THIS BLOG IS NO LONGER ACTIVE. We've retired this blog, but the GifS gang is now active at Atheist Oasis (atheistoasis.wordpress.com). Visit us there! Thu, 22 Jul 2010 00:44:32 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Stardust http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/09/02/church-opposes-reproductive-health-care-act-in-philippines/comment-page-1/#comment-398793 Stardust Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:41:06 +0000 http://gods4suckers.net/?p=3972#comment-398793 <i>Let them first consider how easily this course of action could open wide the way for marital infidelity and a general lowering of moral standards.</i> This is a bogus argument. I know, as many people do, that the Church does not hold the monopoly on morality, nor does being a Catholic or any sort of god believer ensure marital fidelity. Most of the people who cheat on their spouses, having lustful affairs while married, premarital sex, etc. are god believers. How many priests have been accused and convicted of sexually abusing children? The Church should not have such power over the birth control rights of free people. Citizens should be able to make that choice for themselves. People should have options concerning birth control and the number of children one wishes to have. If a god had anything to do with it, there would be plenty for those who have his babies, but this god does not provide, therefore human beings must take action to protect themselves. Sex is part of being human. <i>The sterilization of the citizens will not solve the economic problems of the Philippines.</i> And using a condom is not sterilization, and if a woman or man chooses to be sterilized it is none of the church's damn business. Lots of men and women in western nations use various types of birth control from condoms, to sterilization procedures. It is the responsible thing to do instead of continuously popping out hungry children in poverty conditions because of some ancient superstitious beliefs. All the Catholic church is about is power...and this is a threat to their power and control over the masses. Let them first consider how easily this course of action could open wide the way for marital infidelity and a general lowering of moral standards.

This is a bogus argument. I know, as many people do, that the Church does not hold the monopoly on morality, nor does being a Catholic or any sort of god believer ensure marital fidelity. Most of the people who cheat on their spouses, having lustful affairs while married, premarital sex, etc. are god believers. How many priests have been accused and convicted of sexually abusing children?

The Church should not have such power over the birth control rights of free people. Citizens should be able to make that choice for themselves. People should have options concerning birth control and the number of children one wishes to have. If a god had anything to do with it, there would be plenty for those who have his babies, but this god does not provide, therefore human beings must take action to protect themselves. Sex is part of being human.

The sterilization of the citizens will not solve the economic problems of the Philippines.

And using a condom is not sterilization, and if a woman or man chooses to be sterilized it is none of the church’s damn business. Lots of men and women in western nations use various types of birth control from condoms, to sterilization procedures. It is the responsible thing to do instead of continuously popping out hungry children in poverty conditions because of some ancient superstitious beliefs.

All the Catholic church is about is power…and this is a threat to their power and control over the masses.

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By: Reynor http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/09/02/church-opposes-reproductive-health-care-act-in-philippines/comment-page-1/#comment-398791 Reynor Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:32:35 +0000 http://gods4suckers.net/?p=3972#comment-398791 I grew up in the Philippines Laura and I have seen poverty as how you have seen it. The RH Bill is not the solution to the moral degradation of the society that causes poverty. The sterilization of the citizens will not solve the economic problems of the Philippines. The Catholic Church through the encyclical Humanae Vitae warns us on the consequences of such bills: Responsible men can become more deeply convinced of the truth of the doctrine laid down by the Church on this issue if they reflect on the consequences of methods and plans for artificial birth control. Let them first consider how easily this course of action could open wide the way for marital infidelity and a general lowering of moral standards. Not much experience is needed to be fully aware of human weakness and to understand that human beings—and especially the young, who are so exposed to temptation—need incentives to keep the moral law, and it is an evil thing to make it easy for them to break that law. Another effect that gives cause for alarm is that a man who grows accustomed to the use of contraceptive methods may forget the reverence due to a woman, and, disregarding her physical and emotional equilibrium, reduce her to being a mere instrument for the satisfaction of his own desires, no longer considering her as his partner whom he should surround with care and affection. Finally, careful consideration should be given to the danger of this power passing into the hands of those public authorities who care little for the precepts of the moral law. Who will blame a government which in its attempt to resolve the problems affecting an entire country resorts to the same measures as are regarded as lawful by married people in the solution of a particular family difficulty? Who will prevent public authorities from favoring those contraceptive methods which they consider more effective? Should they regard this as necessary, they may even impose their use on everyone. It could well happen, therefore, that when people, either individually or in family or social life, experience the inherent difficulties of the divine law and are determined to avoid them, they may give into the hands of public authorities the power to intervene in the most personal and intimate responsibility of husband and wife. I grew up in the Philippines Laura and I have seen poverty as how you have seen it. The RH Bill is not the solution to the moral degradation of the society that causes poverty. The sterilization of the citizens will not solve the economic problems of the Philippines.

The Catholic Church through the encyclical Humanae Vitae warns us on the consequences of such bills:

Responsible men can become more deeply convinced of the truth of the doctrine laid down by the Church on this issue if they reflect on the consequences of methods and plans for artificial birth control. Let them first consider how easily this course of action could open wide the way for marital infidelity and a general lowering of moral standards. Not much experience is needed to be fully aware of human weakness and to understand that human beings—and especially the young, who are so exposed to temptation—need incentives to keep the moral law, and it is an evil thing to make it easy for them to break that law. Another effect that gives cause for alarm is that a man who grows accustomed to the use of contraceptive methods may forget the reverence due to a woman, and, disregarding her physical and emotional equilibrium, reduce her to being a mere instrument for the satisfaction of his own desires, no longer considering her as his partner whom he should surround with care and affection.

Finally, careful consideration should be given to the danger of this power passing into the hands of those public authorities who care little for the precepts of the moral law. Who will blame a government which in its attempt to resolve the problems affecting an entire country resorts to the same measures as are regarded as lawful by married people in the solution of a particular family difficulty? Who will prevent public authorities from favoring those contraceptive methods which they consider more effective? Should they regard this as necessary, they may even impose their use on everyone. It could well happen, therefore, that when people, either individually or in family or social life, experience the inherent difficulties of the divine law and are determined to avoid them, they may give into the hands of public authorities the power to intervene in the most personal and intimate responsibility of husband and wife.

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By: Laura http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/09/02/church-opposes-reproductive-health-care-act-in-philippines/comment-page-1/#comment-397618 Laura Sun, 14 Sep 2008 14:52:44 +0000 http://gods4suckers.net/?p=3972#comment-397618 Hey, I'm from the Philippines, and I'm a Catholic. I am for the bill which has been proposed, even if my religion is against it. The people living below the poverty line here, they just keep making babies because they don't have anything else to do. Some of the wives get beaten up by their husbands if they refuse to have sex. It's a very sad condition. And they don't even know that there are things such as contraceptives like the condom and pills that can help them. The bill is still currently in process. Today in the Inquirer(newspaper) there was a backing out of 2 House reps. They withdrew their support because of the influence of the church. The Catholic religion is very influential here, because most or almost all citizens are followers of this religion. Anyway, I'm writing a paper for my philosophy class about the policy "The RHCA should be adopted by the state." and I just happened to click on this link. Hey, I’m from the Philippines, and I’m a Catholic. I am for the bill which has been proposed, even if my religion is against it. The people living below the poverty line here, they just keep making babies because they don’t have anything else to do. Some of the wives get beaten up by their husbands if they refuse to have sex. It’s a very sad condition. And they don’t even know that there are things such as contraceptives like the condom and pills that can help them.
The bill is still currently in process. Today in the Inquirer(newspaper) there was a backing out of 2 House reps. They withdrew their support because of the influence of the church. The Catholic religion is very influential here, because most or almost all citizens are followers of this religion.
Anyway, I’m writing a paper for my philosophy class about the policy “The RHCA should be adopted by the state.” and I just happened to click on this link.

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By: Stardust http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/09/02/church-opposes-reproductive-health-care-act-in-philippines/comment-page-1/#comment-396746 Stardust Thu, 04 Sep 2008 21:41:10 +0000 http://gods4suckers.net/?p=3972#comment-396746 <i>So should we tell 35 year old women that they shouldn’t have babies because the risk of down’s and other complications is so much higher than for teenage pregnancies?</i> 35-year olds are done with school and mature enough to handle the problems that come along with caring for a Down's syndrome child. 17 year olds are barely able to take care of themselves. Just look how they go wild when they go off to college. It takes another four years after high school for most kids in today's world to mature enough to be responsible parents. Usually when a teenager girl gets pregnant, the grandparents end up helping to raise the child. The point here is that fundies are dictating what a woman should and should not do with their own bodies, and also telling everyone what better "moral values" that Christians have. They obviously aren't any better than the rest of us, so they should just shut the fuck up about having moral superiority and better family values. So should we tell 35 year old women that they shouldn’t have babies because the risk of down’s and other complications is so much higher than for teenage pregnancies?

35-year olds are done with school and mature enough to handle the problems that come along with caring for a Down’s syndrome child. 17 year olds are barely able to take care of themselves. Just look how they go wild when they go off to college. It takes another four years after high school for most kids in today’s world to mature enough to be responsible parents. Usually when a teenager girl gets pregnant, the grandparents end up helping to raise the child.

The point here is that fundies are dictating what a woman should and should not do with their own bodies, and also telling everyone what better “moral values” that Christians have. They obviously aren’t any better than the rest of us, so they should just shut the fuck up about having moral superiority and better family values.

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By: jimmy dean http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/09/02/church-opposes-reproductive-health-care-act-in-philippines/comment-page-1/#comment-396743 jimmy dean Thu, 04 Sep 2008 21:19:35 +0000 http://gods4suckers.net/?p=3972#comment-396743 Children grow up so fast sometimes... though sometimes people never mature. Children grow up so fast sometimes… though sometimes people never mature.

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By: jimmy dean http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/09/02/church-opposes-reproductive-health-care-act-in-philippines/comment-page-1/#comment-396742 jimmy dean Thu, 04 Sep 2008 21:16:21 +0000 http://gods4suckers.net/?p=3972#comment-396742 So should we tell 35 year old women that they shouldn't have babies because the risk of down's and other complications is so much higher than for teenage pregnancies? Try and fight the laws of nature... There are so many crappy parents/ guardians of all ages... It is too bad that someone as "mature" as Barack Obama dramatically raised the probability of his daughters going on to get addicted to nicotine because of his example as a smoking parent. Younger parents might even realte to children better... My main point is that I dont advocate shaming women of any age or situation for making whatever choice they make regarding pregnancy. Seems to me that all the criticism of teenage pregnancies just puts more shame on the women. Obviously we need far more education and accessability to contraceptives. Not more shame though, thats for the god-freaks. So should we tell 35 year old women that they shouldn’t have babies because the risk of down’s and other complications is so much higher than for teenage pregnancies? Try and fight the laws of nature… There are so many crappy parents/ guardians of all ages… It is too bad that someone as “mature” as Barack Obama dramatically raised the probability of his daughters going on to get addicted to nicotine because of his example as a smoking parent. Younger parents might even realte to children better… My main point is that I dont advocate shaming women of any age or situation for making whatever choice they make regarding pregnancy. Seems to me that all the criticism of teenage pregnancies just puts more shame on the women. Obviously we need far more education and accessability to contraceptives. Not more shame though, thats for the god-freaks.

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By: Stardust http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/09/02/church-opposes-reproductive-health-care-act-in-philippines/comment-page-1/#comment-396707 Stardust Thu, 04 Sep 2008 15:52:36 +0000 http://gods4suckers.net/?p=3972#comment-396707 oops Chuck, thanks...will change that! Must proofread better! oops Chuck, thanks…will change that! Must proofread better!

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By: ChuckA http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2008/09/02/church-opposes-reproductive-health-care-act-in-philippines/comment-page-1/#comment-396703 ChuckA Thu, 04 Sep 2008 15:38:29 +0000 http://gods4suckers.net/?p=3972#comment-396703 Stardust?...RE your, above, spot-on response to Reynor... "The god of the Bible is the one of the most immortal characters in literature and mythology." I think you probably meant: "The god of the Bible is one of the most IMMORAL characters in (all of) literature and mythology." [As famously pointed out so well by Richard Dawkins in "The God Delusion" and his documentary film: "Root of All Evil".] Stardust?…RE your, above, spot-on response to Reynor…
“The god of the Bible is the one of the most immortal characters in literature and mythology.”
I think you probably meant:
“The god of the Bible is one of the most IMMORAL characters in (all of) literature and mythology.”
[As famously pointed out so well by Richard Dawkins in "The God Delusion" and his documentary film:
"Root of All Evil".]

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