“I won’t tell you who to vote for, but . . .”
30 August 2008 by Stardust
More Xian political propaganda in our local paper, and once again from Pastor Mondo Gonzales of Crossroads Community Church who I wrote about before concerning this article, “Does archaeology prove the Bible?” And once again he is twisting and turning and interpreting his mythology book to influence the delusional to vote according to how they are brainwashed in their churches.
Who would Jesus vote for?
Gonzales writes, “I have shared all of this to lay a foundation for discussing the upcoming election and whom we as Christians should vote for.”
Then he goes on to say, ” I am not going to tell you who to vote for,”
then contradicts himself with
” but I believe we should vote for the person that Jesus would vote for.”
Then he continues to arrogantly tell how Jesus would vote:
“How do we know whom Jesus would cast His vote for? We can be absolutely certain Jesus would only cast His vote for someone who loves God, not in word or tongue, but in action and in truth.”
*snip*
“I can assure you Jesus would not vote for someone who would ever support a pro-abortion policy, or a candidate who promoted the homosexual lifestyle. He wouldn’t vote for a person who did not affirm that marriage is between one man and one woman, just to name a few topics. How can we know this? The main reason is because the Bible condemns these things as sinful acts before God and Jesus wouldn’t cast his vote for anyone in power who would use their influence to encourage things that violated God’s Word.”
Another arrogant asshole who presumes to know exactly what this ancient dead person would think and do according to assumptions based on the Old Testament writings which states that children who smart off to their parents should be stoned to death, adulterers should be stoned and where it states that if you leave your wife and take another you have committed adultery. They conveniently ignore those things.
They also ignore the fact that nowhere does Jesus write against abortion. Nowhere does he talk against gay marriage and say that it is wrong. He hung out with a prostitute. He never married, had no children, and was followed around by a bunch of fishermen. Jesus, if he had existed, was a liberal…a far-left-leaning liberal who talked about feeding the hungry, helping the poor and a man who did not have a country club church for social gatherings. We never hear from these loonie evangelicals that we should vote for someone who will help feed the hungry, help the poor and those in need of medical care. Because if they said that, then they will be advocating voting for the evil liberal baby-killers. (A good point my husband had was that there are no “pro-abortionists”…pro-choice, but no one goes around saying that all women must kill their babies. It is not a decision that is made lightly, in most cases.)
My husband and I are sick of these fundies in our local paper and their ignoring the fact that this country is a diverse one, that our state is a diverse one and that our community is a diverse one with many varieties of Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindu, Non-believers and more. Our local newspaper prints this local crap on a weekly basis. Let’s see if they will print our response. I seriously doubt they will and will keep you posted.
30 August 2008, on 12:11 pm
fucking PRICK!…why cant these people have a house fall out of the sky onto their heads?
30 August 2008, on 12:18 pm
Can’t wait to hear if your rebuttal makes the paper, Star. I’m betting they won’t print it. Cowards.
And Mondo, IMO, Jesus wouldn’t even vote.
30 August 2008, on 12:39 pm
It is the height of arrogance to presume to know the thoughts and actions of the one whom you worship. Arrogance is surely a form of pride and if I remember my Bible correctly (Higher Education study of religion has some benefits):
“In his Pride the wicked does not seek Him; in all his thoughts there is no room for God.”
Keep fighting this fundie, people like him make my blood boil.
30 August 2008, on 1:12 pm
“Pro-abortionist” is one of those terms that fundies/conservatives use to distort and smear anyone who disagrees with them.
Fundie leaders want to convince their flock (an incredibly appropriate term) that the pro-choice side does say exactly that. By vilifying the opposing view, they can be assured that they won’t lose their
meal ticketum..congregation.30 August 2008, on 3:06 pm
If you’re looking for a good critique of the Bible (at least the Christian portions of it) check out http://www.atheistsbiblecompanion.com. It has a very scholarly, in-depth treatment of contradictions, absurdities, difficulties from the New Testament. It’s still in progress but already has the most comprehensive critique on the web for the gospels, Acts, and several letters of Paul.
30 August 2008, on 4:03 pm
Ask this asshole my favorite question to Fuckhead Fundies:
What about Miscarriages? You know, “Gawd’s abortions”?
[Official statistic: Every 2 out of 5 pregnancies ends in miscarriage; or so-called "Natural Abortions"]
Explain the so-called “Right to Life” in THAT context.
Something totally different also comes to mind RE “Who would Jeebus vote for”.
Do any of the candidates, like Jeebus did, curse fig trees for not bearing figs…OUT of season, no less?
I’m reminded also of that famous, supposed, quote of Jeebus on the cross:
“Father forgive them…for they know not what they do! [That's the part included in the NT...but I assume, possibly, at the same time, He was thinking]:
“But wait, just a Salvation minute, Father! I’m one of the “3 persons in 1 Gob” Trinity boys, equal to you and “Ghosty guy”; and remember, it was OUR idea to make humans totally ignorant! In other words…it’s our fucking fault that this world is such a dumb-ass mess.
OK, this is total bullshit…get me down off this fucking cross…
ANYBODY?
What’s that, Mary?…Someone’s asking whom should Americans in the year 2008 vote for…What?…President?…WTF…How should I know…I’m not registered…
I’m just a totally made up, mythical character!
You humans are totally, bat-shit insane!
[and, of course, the old joke]:
“Hey Peter!…I can see your house from up here!”
30 August 2008, on 5:33 pm
ChuckA, your sense of humor never fails to make me chuckle
I must admit, I’ve never heard of the “house” bit, either…
30 August 2008, on 5:46 pm
Chuck, your fundie straw man would sanctimoniously reply, “If God wishes to abort a baby, that is God’s business. It is not up to us to decide such matters, and that is why it is immoral to perform or have an abortion.”
Given a postulate that says there really is a god who cares about such matters, that would be a very reasonable argument. As the saying goes, that’s one mighty big “if”.
30 August 2008, on 6:06 pm
To expand on the argument, the fundie line of reasoning holds that the right to life is given by God, and may be taken away only by God. At least, that would be the argument against abortion. Now, you might argue that a miscarriage, or a God-given abortion, should be considered immoral behavior on God’s part. Here you would be wrong. The fundie knows that God is perfection itself and any action on God’s part is, by definition, moral.
See, he has a plan. You may not understand it, that’s fine, but don’t ever question God’s plans. You can learn some of it in Revelations, but be warned, interpretation of scripture requires more thought and contemplation than you can devote. It doesn’t matter how much time you’ve given to the subject already, you are not capable of grasping full import. Furthermore, anyone who claims to perfectly understand God’s plan is a blasphemer.
Before you start poking holes in our fundie straw man, consider this: if asked how capital punishment is a moral consequence for certain crimes (given that the right to life, established above, is absolute) the fundie will most certainly reply that the criminal had forfeited his right to life by his actions. They will not understand that it is they, not the criminal and not God, who has deprived that person of his life.
30 August 2008, on 6:12 pm
Sigh.
In this case, I feel it best to be precise. Fixed with apologies.
30 August 2008, on 8:19 pm
Did it ever occur to Gonzales that Jesus would vote for none of the above? Did it ever occur to Gonzales that Jesus, as a matter of principle, would vote for somebody who is an even better Jesus lover than any of the candidates who are running? Jesus would vote for the best Jesus worshiper in the land, would he not?
I guess Jesus is stuck voting for one or the other of the candidates because Jesus is stuck with the two party system! What an idiot.
30 August 2008, on 10:27 pm
Jesus wouldn’t vote for anyone since he’s also gawd, and therefore knows the outcome.
30 August 2008, on 10:50 pm
BruceH…
Yeah…”God” can do WHATEVER He wants!
[The spoiled, insane, mean spirited, lousy designing...Fucking asshole! I mean...]
Seriously(?)…
My reply to all the those fundies would be that their notion of a so-called God is the perfect example…archetype, really…of the Absolute Tyrant. No human tyrant in all of history, including Hitler, could even begin to approach that level of non-caring, unjust tyranny. And by His actions (”Fruits”), totally contradicts the usual theological definitions of the Highest, Almighty, All Knowing, Most Perfect, Loving, Infinitely JUST…yada, yada…Being.
Of course the notion of any so-called “Right to Life” is made totally bogus; as well as the notion of any true “Free Will” regarding one’s Existence by the supposed, questionably manifested actions of this “God”.
The old: “To Be (Exist) or NOT to Be”…THAT is the question!” has really no place in the Judeo-Christian existential formula; and thus no REAL choice is ever actually allowed to us humans. It’s : “Believe this bullshit…or suffer eternal punishment”…which is manifestly…NO REAL CHOICE!
[Similar to the "gun to the head" examples that we're all familiar with.]
That leads me back to the “no choice” injustice of miscarriages, as applied to the notion of “God’s abortions”. After all, the religious notion of “soul” is always involved in the doctrine. And, of course, the soul is supposed, doctrinally, to be created simultaneous with conception. In the case of miscarriage there is obviously NO choice by either the fetus’ soul…OR the parents…it’s purely God’s existential meddling into the biological process. The old: “Not our will, but HIS be done!”
Not only that…now, since Limbo was shut down, it’s assumed that the “soul” of the fetus will automatically go to “Heaven” without having to face the same kind of “challenges” and drastic “Faith-based acceptance of Jeebus” choice that we, who actually WERE born, are faced with.
At any rate, BruceH, no amount of arguing regarding all these mythologically based suppositions will change any minds. [And at 68; I really don't give a shit!]
As I’m typing this; I’m aware of the trap one steps into when trying to muddle through the endless mire of “unanswered questions” which plague all attempts at making sense of “Existence”.
I’ve commented many times that I’m more and more in agreement with Neitsche’s “Existence is Absurd” conclusion!
In fact, I’ll state a variation of my own: “Even the NOTION of a “god” is absurd!”
Or maybe…I’M NOT IMPRESSED, or AWED, by any religious notion of ANY god I’ve ever heard of. They’re
all…manifestly…i.e…”by their ‘Fruits”…absolute…no contest…assholes!
As an exercise…just try imagining BEING “God”, and think of the detailed creation of the ‘predatory system of Earth’ that we know; or perhaps, more Scientifically, start with the Universe…with what we know today about it…a sky manifesting Billions of years in the past, absolutely hostile, with deadly radiation, colliding Galaxies, Black Holes, anti-matter, dark matter, String Theory, yada yada. Would YOU as a “God” create it…and, of course, this preditory nuthouse world?
I wouldn’t! Come to think of it…I’m not really impressed or awed by the Universe either. Any kind of Absolute [Terrifying] Power is, to my mind, tantamount to a complete turn-off…ultimately. I can even say, tongue-in-cheek…”Fuck existence…it’s a sham…Nothingness…now THERE’S the ticket!”
[What! Sarte's Existentialist..."Being And Nothingness"..."No Exit!"...?]
Of course…what if the Universe is, in some sense, “God”; and we, in our Consciousness, are Eternally a part of “God”…and this is only one Universe amongst an unknown multitude of parallel, simultaneous Universes, etc. “There’s a horse of different color!”
“Oy Vey!”
OK…one more related item…
I maintain that the Judeo-Christian [Abrahamic] model of existence, whereby, no one’s life has any equality from the standpoint of a particular “Time & Space” of birth, namely: length of life, quality, intelligence, talents, etc.; with absolutely NO apparent choice given, EXISTENTIALLY, to the individual human’s manifestation IN time and space, is actually inferior to the Eastern notions, with pre-existence [the other end of Eternity] as an included element. Even the notion of “Brahma” [the source of the word Abraham, by the way], in “His in-breathing and out-breathing”, Eternal “dream-like” evolutionary being; fits much more comfortably, I’d say, with the ever increasing “Scientific Data” we humans are discovering.
Then again…I’m a die-hard, “Open-minded Skeptic” about practically everything.
Anyway…
Thanks BruceH, for your interesting, thoughtful, well constructed, comments; but this is about as far as I’m interested in going with this notoriously “endless argument”!
Ummm…Be Well?
31 August 2008, on 12:03 am
By the way, BruceH…Your referencing to “Revelations” reminded me of a really interesting, if lesser known, book about the Bible. You might check your library for it; but chances are, because of the title(?), you probably won’t find it there.
Anyway, it’s…
“Deceptions and Myths of the Bible” by Lloyd M. Graham.
It’s actually the book that really catapulted me toward atheism. Graham, I think, has a totally unique perspective. Another interesting author, in my opinion…Acharya S…refers to him, favorably, in some of HER analytical articles about the Bible.
Here’s Amazon’s page RE the paperback version of Graham’s book [looks like it's temporarily out of stock?]:
http://www.amazon.com/Deceptions-Myths-Bible-Lloyd-Graham/dp/0806511249
In spite of any detractors, I highly recommend it…to anyone!
I also recommend checking Acharya S’s [aka D.M. Murdock] articles at HER Home page:
However, here’s her: “The Origins of Christianity and the Quest for the Historical Jesus Christ” Page:
http://www.truthbeknown.com/origins.htm
“Over and out!”
31 August 2008, on 1:31 am
Oh yeah…and Benjamin…?
Thanks for the above nod on my feeble attempts at humor.
I checked out your very interesting My Space Blog…NICE!…
I dug your Blues video, too!
One of my old friends and former (1969-71) band mates, by the name of Ed Tossing…a fantastic keyboardist/singer/arranger/composer…originally from the Chicago area; lives, and still works in Nashville. We’re still (occasionally) in touch. [That reminds me!]
Of course he’s in my generation of musicians…those, somewhere in their 60s…”older farts”?
31 August 2008, on 10:11 am
386sx, if jesus had to vote for the best jesus worshipper in the land, wouldn’t he have to vote for the pope? After all, the entire planet is his domain, yes? The poop for pres., right behind the bush.
I made a funny
31 August 2008, on 1:22 pm
Wow, ChuckA, thanks a lot! I really appreciate that! I gotta say, after playing in bands with a bunch of whippersnappers like me, and then with “old farts”, I prefer the wiser, more experienced players ANY day of the week!
They always know how to serve the song more effectively and they have a much better grasp of what’s really going on. Not to mention I like being the only young punk on stage…by default I get more female attention that way, LMAO!
But in all seriousness, I feel like there’s much to learn from the older players. Some of the people we’ve gone on the road with (around my age) seem to think they’ve already got it figured out, and they dont need to learn a damn thing; rather they feel the need to teach everyone else how good they already are…it gets olod very quickly…
31 August 2008, on 2:13 pm
It would be great if everyone who reads this went to the church site posted in the article and emailed this clown a few political science facts and information about separation of church and state. The idiot needs some education even about his own religion. He is making it up as he wants to see it to justify his own bigotry against those who are different. As for anti-abortion, we are going to challenge him to find anyone in this country who is “pro abortion” or “pro-baby killing”. There are no politicians as far as I know who are in favor of abortion. They may be pro-choice, but I don’t know anyone who is pro-abortion. Not even people I know who have had abortions. It was quite heartwrenching for them.
31 August 2008, on 4:02 pm
Ok, we get it. Jesus wouldn’t vote pro-choice or pro-gay. So instead, he’s going to vote for a serial adulterer?
31 August 2008, on 5:24 pm
my apology in advance, Stardust, for so much OT blabbing here.
Benjamin…
I remember, when I first started working Professionally in the early 1960s, especially in “Big Bands”,
feeling rather intimidated by a lot of the older cats; who in those days were often Staff/Studio musicians, with amazing ‘chops’ and experience up the ass. I remember often riding in the back seat of a car-load of those “veterans” on the way to some College gig, worrying about Sight Reading charts I had never laid eyes on!
As to your mention of:
“…I like being the only young punk on stage…by default I get more female attention that way, LMAO!”
Ummm…Keep on laughing? I think, in retrospect, most, if not all, (straight) male musicians had some of the same motivation when first seriously deciding to become a musician; even if only subconsciously!
In other words…looking for “Babes in Toyland”?
Or is it Robin Leach’s:
“Fame, Fortune, and Romance!”?
As for my experience working with various gal ‘musicians’ (albeit the ’strictly singer variety’); the business seemed to turn a goodly number of them into somewhat spoiled…little Deva-wannabes.
OR, quite often, they were less musically knowledgeable, overly pampered, and ivariably over-paid…and a few of them…dare I say…WERE real “Bitches”(?); who got away without doing any of the heavy (or even light) lifting and tedious equipment “schlepping”.
[I'm also kidding somewhat in all this, of course!]
I’m guessing, Benjamin, that things have changed quite a bit from those days…NO?
1 September 2008, on 12:32 am
hehe, I gotta be honest, sight reading is the last of my worries! In Nashville, everyone operates on the number system and charts (which is really quite silly, because the NashVegas “number system” is just a dumbed-down version of Roman numeral analysis…)
I definitely can relate to being VERY intimidated by the older guys. It didnt help when I was late getting up the first few mornings to leave the gig, either. I caught more hell for that!
In all seriousness, it was certainly a subconscious motivator. I was always an odd duck, and the girl thing never really dawned on me until way after the fact. I am very lucky to have such a supportive woman at home. She trusts me and I dont give her any reason not to. Also, we usually roll with a female fiddle player, and she is totally one of the guys. She schlepps more gear than you can shake a stick at, AND shes a looker, to boot. We really lucked out with her! I’ve only worked with a handful of “diva” vocalists, but believe it or not, the laziest singer I’ve ever worked with was a guy. And a typical drunk, belligerant fool on top of it…
1 September 2008, on 11:27 am
[...] “I won’t tell you who to vote for, but . . .” [...]
1 September 2008, on 12:38 pm
The sight reading shtick was really only in my “early on” experience. All the later career shtick was a mix of some reading; but a lot of Rote, totally by ear, Fake Book (mucho faking)…and general stumbling around! I’m a pretty good faker, so I managed to survive various and sundry onslaughts!
]
I really didn’t mean to be so hard on the gals (oops…hard-on?). In one band, in particular, the leader’s wife/singer, shlepped a lot of equipment with her hubbie and moi…I was the “jobbing band’s” bass guitar player/singer/roadie/equipment schlepper.
[My multi-instrumentalist/singer versatility (insanity?) came in handy in my rather offbeat, low profile, career.]
And your mentioning the drunk singer reminds me of all my own 1960s-mid-1970s “functional drunk” years. Beyond that, it took me, through some, rather shaky, later ’70s “slipping and sliding”, occasional off the wagon years, til May of 1986, to finally stop beating up on myself.
[Pastor...Stardust?]:
“And for your penance, Chuck, say four “Our Farters” and three “Hail Mare-shits”…
now shut the fuck up!”
Anyway, Ben…May I call you Ben?…Now that we’ve blabbed so much about ourselves; I suppose, in deference to Stardust, and all our GifSter friends here, maybe we should…”knock it off” with our extended OT “musician’s chatter”…?
However…I just flashed on one particular Stone’s tune line (from “Sympathy for the Devil?):
“PLEASED TO MEET YOU…Hope you guessed my name…”
[No actual belief in Satan implied, of course!
Probably because of my early Jazz roots, I happen to prefer the somewhat lesser known BS&T, Clayton Thomas, version!
Oh well…why the hell not! It’s “Labor Day!” [I'm actually kinda surprised to even find it on YouTube!]:
Blood, Sweat & Tears…”Symphony for the Devil/Sympathy for the Devil”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heXGH7XwZyk
Be Well Benjamin…and Happy Labor Day, everyone!
My real sympathies to anyone dealing in any way with “Gustav”!
What’s that?…There’s a Repiglican Convention starting today?…
“ZZZZZZZZZ”!!!
3 November 2008, on 1:35 am
Pastor Mondo is a God fearing man who preaches the gospel just as God intended for us to hear it!! As I was reading all of your comments, I realized that those of you who defy the truth of the gospel know very little, if anything about our Creator!! Hell is a very real place!! There is absolutely no hope for those of you who reject the Lord Jesus Christ!! I’m not asking any of you to befriend Pastor Mondo, but what about embracing the truth and hearing the message that he is willing to share with you all!! Thank you, Pastor Mondo, for your courage and wisdom in these last days. May God bless you all!!
16 November 2008, on 9:34 am
my mom’s pastor has a different tactic, but it’s incredibly similar. he says “i won’t tell ya’ll who to vote for, but you know who *i’m* voting for. same horse, different rider, imho.