“Moment of Silence” Mandated for Illinois Schools
13 October 2007 by StardustThis is disturbing. Schools in Illinois have always had the option to have a moment of silence, but it was the teacher’s choice whether to implement it or not, but now it’s mandated by law. What a sneaky-ass way to get around the whole separation of church and state issue by calling this a “neutral moment of silence”.
SPRINGFIELD—State lawmakers thrust Illinois into the center of the national debate on school prayer today as the House approved legislation to require public schools to provide students with a moment of silence at the start of classes.
Students from kindergarten through high school will be allowed to silently pray in whatever faith they practice or simply sit and reflect quietly. Illinois teachers and students have had the option of doing so since 2002, but it wasn’t mandated.
The Illinois House voted to override Gov. Rod Blagojevich’s late August veto of the silent-moment measure. The governor cited concerns about the separation of church and state.
“The law in Illinois today already allows teachers and students the opportunity to take a moment for silent thought or prayer, if they chose to,” Blagojevich wrote. “I believe this is the right balance between the principles echoed in our constitution, and our deeply held desire to practice our faith. As a parent, I am working with my wife to raise our children to respect prayer and to pray because they want to pray—not because they are required to.”
But the Senate moved to overturn the governor’s veto last week by a wide margin, and the House did the same today.
13 October 2007, on 11:08 pm
This falls into the same category for me as the whole Nudow/Pledge nonsense. It’s a moment of silence, no more, despite what it’s proponents may hope it means. I think getting irate over inconsequential shit like this is counterproductive unless you’re a parent in these particular schools and, even then, it’s not worth losing sleep over.
Especially when you consider the popular groundswell that has switched majorities in our legislature and increasingly marginalized the godbully power brokers. Just seems our energies are better spent fighting things that matter.
13 October 2007, on 11:28 pm
RDZ, don’t you think this is going to provide teachers “of faith” with the opportunity to promote prayer in class? Sure it’s just a small thing, but it’s just the foot in the door religious folks were hoping for. The quotes from clergy in local papers here are ecstatic and declaring it a “victory”. Some of the fundies here in our area are quoted in the papers as saying “it’s only a beginning.”
(And it does affect everyone even if you don’t have kids because these children grow into voting adults.)
And having experience as a teacher, I know that you don’t need a “mandated moment of silence” to prepare your class for a day of learning.
13 October 2007, on 11:36 pm
I agree that this is not something to lose sleep over, but also, to keep in the back of your mind. If there is a non believing student, can they not participate in the moment? What options do they have?
13 October 2007, on 11:42 pm
If there is a non believing student, can they not participate in the moment? What options do they have?
jesustookmyhair – (funny name!)
My experience with raising three kids is that most likely the kid will be able to “opt out”, however, he or she will be at the mercy of their peers and looked down on for being the “oddball” who doesn’t want to conform. Most will just go along with it so they won’t rock the boat.
Things like mandated moments of silence are ridiculous issues to even be taking up time debating and voting about it when there are so many more serious issues concerning the state of education in Illinois public schools. For the most part, Illinois public schools suck unless you are lucky enough to live in a well-to-do neighborhood, and even then they just teach kids to memorize enough to regurgitate answers to get good scores standardized tests (which makes the schools look like they are good when kids actually learn very little).
14 October 2007, on 12:05 am
You have to remember, these are school kids. Think about what went through your minds in similar situations.
We weren’t praying to god or feeling forced to do so. We were thinking about things that seemed relevant to us as teenagers. Things like the girl or boy we had a crush on, “shit I forgot to do my biology homework last night!”, the bully who might tease us at some point during the day, what we watched on tv the night before.
When I was in junior high, I remember during home room every morning they would announce “a moment for silent prayer or meditation”. But they had no control over what we actually thought about during that moment.
I also think it is important to remember that just because the other side thinks it has won a victory does not mean that they really won anything at all. Some years ago when I was into the Free Tibet movement, I participated in a rally across the street from a building where the Chinese official Zhu Rongzhi was meeting. Nearby was a handful of mostly white guys who were oddly enough there demonstrating in support of China. Why, I have no idea, though I recall someone mentioning they were LaRouchies. Anyway, some of the Tibetans were taunting the pro-China people, who after a while packed up and left. I remember one of the Tibetan men, a short squat fellow, started leaping up and down and gleefully declaring “We won! We won!”
I remember thinking “Yeah, you won what? Your fellow Tibetans are living under the iron fist of Chinese rule and getting a handful of pro-China demonstrators to pack up and go home represents a victory?” Talk about setting the bar really low!
I would agree that supporters of this measure should be watched to make sure they don’t use it as a means to get school prayer restored, but I wouldn’t get all in a twist over it either. But that’s just my opinion, and I could be wrong.
14 October 2007, on 12:31 am
You have to remember, these are school kids. Think about what went through your minds in similar situations.
Tommykey, I can see your point on that. Even during my confirmation and first communion at age 13 I was thinking about everything except what the minister was mumbling. And prayers? Even as an adult my mind wandered. I think the thing that irks me is that this moment of silence is mandated and not left up to the individual teachers or school districts like it was. They should have just left it alone. Like I said, Illinois schools have so many huge problems that need attention, and what is the focus? A moment of silence mandate…geesh!
14 October 2007, on 1:35 am
Yeah…jesustookmyhair…
)…as you say:
(mine too…well, maybe not Jeebus, in my case…Satan?
“I agree that this is not something to lose sleep over…”
BUT…
I’m a member of Illinois Atheists; and had received several sequential emails from members about this story. I followed an embedded email link, and actually read through all the comments…yeah…the usual mix…totally ignorant of history, bonehead dillusionalists and a few occasional atheists sprinkled in to point out the real historical facts. A couple of interesting links; one to the US treasury about “In Gord We Thrust!” shtick.
http://www.treas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.shtml
[I have a 1935 Twenty dollar bill, by the way, with no Gord Fuck reference on it!]
I had previously responded to an AU (Americans United) alert (Thursday?); and, as I so rarely do…signed and forwarded my protest to the local Representative. I had the feeling it was going to be a futile gesture; but I also feel it’s time to stand up against these ignorant bastards, no matter how seemingly insignificant these “inconsequential shit” items are. And I disagree totally with RDZ’s assessment of the, as he puts it: “Nudow/Pledge nonsense”.
Maybe it’s partly due to my age (I’m older?); having seen the gradual erosion in my 67 year lifetime of the lying fuckheads brutal manipulation of history, etc.
If nothing else, Nudow stood up to the bullshitters; and brought the issue into SOME light; if only to open up a few minds to the total warping of the REAL history of the Pledge.
At least he’s actually gone through the physical motions it takes to “stand on principal”. It takes ‘real’ guts to put yourself on the line, in my opinion. Not like most of us in the “shadows” of anonymity. He managed to pull a lot of bonehead’s ‘chains’…even in Washington.
He’s not a Dawkins or Hitchens…but he caused SOME consciousness raising, nonetheless. Alas, perhaps…futile?
I went to Catholic grammar schools in the late 1940s/early ’50s; when the phrase “Under God” wasn’t even, to my awareness, whispered about. I don’t remember any of the nuns, at the time, complaining, either. The fucking over came later due to the Knights of Columbus (that overblown delusional fucker of Native Americans?).
What ignorant, brainwashed, idiots we have in all levels of our government. Nothing new, of course; assholes have always ruled ANY government that has ever existed on this insane, forlorn, nuthouse planet.
The “Floundering” Fathers were a rare species,indeed, considering the whole area of pre-Darwinian, Scientific ignorance etc. of their time.
It’s amazing, I guess, that they even came along at all in this planet’s extremely bizarre history.
I disagree with those who think this issue, minute as it may seem, is inconsequential. The chiseling away at the little things add up, over time, to eventual BIG changes in policies. I noted recently (if anyone reads my comments) the important issue of the future of the Supreme Court in the upcoming election. Hardly anyone, I’ve noticed, is bringing the subject up.
WHY not?
My guess is, they (the various media delusionals) don’t want to distract anyone from all the Game-like “I love Jeebus more than you do”…or…”I’m holier than thou!”…or…”he talks to ME more than you; (you stinking piece of groveling shit!)”…and again…”My heart (thumpety-thump) and (filthy) thoughts and delusional prayers go out to you” (erm…duck & cover?)…asininity.
OK; seriously(?)…
If nothing else; we, as atheists, need to keep fighting EVERY FUCKING INCH for some place at the “Rational Table”; especially with the amount of Gord asslicking going on in prep to 2008!
Indeed, the amount of babbling noise these total delusional fuckheads have been making has steadily grown from a relative “pianissimo” (very soft) in the 1960s…to a “Triple Forte” (very Loud) in today’s insane political “Cacophony”!
After all: “Little Things (DO) Mean A Lot!” (Ah…those 1950s tunes…again!)
14 October 2007, on 9:34 am
I’d be sure to fart REAL loud…
14 October 2007, on 9:59 am
Actually, a moment of silence- if it included breaking the thumbs of anyone texting during the moment, might be a good thing. And, honestly, anyone praying in school- in public for that matter, would be laughed at by the cool kids, the stoners, the skaters, the goths, and the geeks anyway.
14 October 2007, on 10:04 am
Being from Ill. and having voted for Obama for senate one would think that I should support him for president. But as he was thinking of running and as he gave his “I am running speech”, all I heard from him is Gawd, Gawd, and Gawd. When he ran for senate he did not say that crap or he would not have made it out of the primary here in Ill.
So is he a true believer? or using Gawd to help his presidential campaign? Does he realize that he will not be reelected here in Ill with that crap? Or contrary to what he says, he is a slick politician who says what he wants for expediency? The next president is important for the Supreme court. Having another Gauwd nut running the place places us all closer to 1984.
14 October 2007, on 11:00 am
If you ignore all the ulterior and long-term motives behind something like this (and I don’t doubt that they’re there), you’re left with just a basic question, whether or not these consequences will ever actually happen: Why would you think something like this was needed in the first place?
That is, if it’s not required to teach a class, and if all you have as “reasons” are dumbass comments like those above, then there just seems to be no reason for something like this. That’s really my only problem with it right now.
Oh yes, kids with iPods are struggling to get those quiet times, begging for us to give those to them, and it’s really all we can do right now to give them these moments of silence.
Please, give me a break.
14 October 2007, on 11:40 am
So the agreed upon solution to this problem is to feed our kids oats and cream o wheat for breakfast, and let the gassing begin!!
14 October 2007, on 12:01 pm
Here’s a thought… it sounds clear that the Illinois legislation allows non-theistic students to enjoy a moment of “silent reflection”. I suggest that we buy ‘em mirrors.
14 October 2007, on 12:18 pm
Steve in Mi…at least looking at oneself in a mirror isn’t communicating with an imaginary friend.
14 October 2007, on 12:57 pm
I really have a hard time believing that a minute’s worth of a “moment of silence” at the beginning of the school day helps students in any way. If it works so well, why don’t they have a it before the beginning of each period or after lunch or recess when the kids tend to get worked up again? And why is it that a “moment of silence” is merely a reaction to the fact that they can’t have organized prayer in school anymore? If it is such a great thing, why weren’t they using it all along instead of prayer? I’ll tell you why, because the whole “moment of silence” thing is just a way for the fundies to keep their religious foot in the secular door until they feel they have enough votes in the Supreme Court to bring prayer back in the schools. “Moment of Silence” is merely code for “prayer in schools”.
14 October 2007, on 1:25 pm
Throw in some onion rings!
14 October 2007, on 1:57 pm
the whole “moment of silence” thing is just a way for the fundies to keep their religious foot in the secular door until they feel they have enough votes in the Supreme Court to bring prayer back in the schools. “Moment of Silence” is merely code for “prayer in schools”.
My concern, exactly!
Quote from news article:
14 October 2007, on 2:51 pm
IMO, this “moment” of silence is time subtracted from actual learning. If teachers think their students need special quiet time, they could encourage them or their insistent parents to buy them a pair of earplugs they can wear at home. This kind of mandated crap has no place in a classroom.
I’m with Bruce on this
14 October 2007, on 5:07 pm
I am a schoolteacher in Texas…
We started with a moment of silence five/six years ago. The moment of silence was mandatory from the beginning.
This year I came back to work only to find a memo stating that the Texas state pledge had been changed to include “one state under god/one and indivisible”. See, it won’t stop with just a neutral moment of silence.
Question: Is it just me or is the NEW god-filled Texas pledge ambiguous? Is the geopolitical demarcation known as “Texas” one and indivisble or is god, “one and indivisible”. You could read the pledge either way.
14 October 2007, on 8:47 pm
Much Ad About Nothing. Geez. A moment of silence is a moment of silence. Silly, perhaps, but no a “foot in the door” or much of anything else. All it achieves is to make some adults feel vaguely pious. And they would be appalled to know what the little urchins are thinking about.
15 October 2007, on 9:40 am
Old Viking, yes, the kids will probably be thinking about who they are going to play with or beat up at recess, however, there has already been a few problems with fundie teachers using the “foot in the door” to talk about Jeebus and prayer. Our district schools of the Chicago suburb we live in already have the “Proud to be an American…Gawd bless the USA” song played over the intercom system in ALL schools after the pledge each and every day.
15 October 2007, on 12:41 pm
The fundie teachers are already doing everything they can to “encourage” the children to become willing minions of the invisible sky daddy. This few minutes of silence will allow them to “see” which students are good little christies and which are evil non-believing bastards. Do you think that this could affect their grade? Is a fundie teacher going to play favorites with the jebus freaks that pray real hard? What about Muslim students that need to face a special way and hoot and holler to meet their “I love Allah” requirement? Do you get a moment of noise if your gawd requires a loud dedication?
Teachers already have too little time to do their job effectively. Lets cut into their time even more with this stupidity.
Yes, it is not that big of a deal. However, give these fuckers an inch and they will run you over with their car.
15 October 2007, on 5:33 pm
In TEXAS…in the year 2007 (Sorry, Texas time is different, we are in the Year of our Lord 1213):
1) Moment of silence followed by…
2) New state pledge with “under gawd” inserted just to make bewildering godspeak even more bewildering
3) It does matter. Why start the school day with a recognition of Sky Daddy’s existence at all?
15 October 2007, on 9:55 pm
Much Ad About Nothing. Geez. A moment of silence is a moment of silence. Silly, perhaps, but no a “foot in the door” or much of anything else.
If this is the case, then why have a “moment of silence” in the first place? It must be serving some purpose.
16 October 2007, on 2:46 am
This is one of the most bizarre things I’ve heard in a LONG time. Why would you need a designated minute to pray/meditate/whatever. If it’s such an important part of your life I’m fairly sure you’d find time on way to school/during breaks/during class/in the bathroom… Wherever/whenever they feel the need!
I can also honestly say that I can’t recall any class I’ve ever been to where I paid attention the whole time regardless so I’m sure time could be found to pray if the person so desires anyway!
I’m not up to date on what’s been going on with prayer in school as it’s not a big issue here in Oz but I find the idea of forcing your religion/ideas on people entirely offensive and even more so on children!!
17 October 2007, on 1:19 am
Fuck, I was just visiting an IL high school today. This pissed me off SO MUCH. Way to braintrain kids, IL. Fuck.
Man, this is even stupider than the four years of required gym.*
‘Sides, wait one week and most kids will be ignoring it entirely… just as my classes used to ignore the pledge.
*Consider that IL doesn’t require four years of math and gym requirements can be waived, and you begin to realize the depths of stupidity to which the IL legislature has previously sunk. Well, they’ve pretty much topped it now. Blagh.
17 October 2007, on 11:29 am
I don’t know if anyone is reading this far back, but here’s an update:
http://www.suburbanchicagonews.com/newssun/news/601543,5_1_WA13_BOWN_S1.article
17 October 2007, on 7:14 pm
666, no I hadn’t seen that update. Thanks for posting that link.
And here is the part that is the point I have a beef with:
“An Illinois law called the Silent Reflection and Student Prayer Act already allowed schools to observe a moment of silence if they wanted. The new provision changes just one word: “may” observe becomes “shall” observe.
19 October 2007, on 7:00 pm
Idiot Box has a cartoon about this over here:
http://www.mattbors.com/archives/298.html
19 October 2007, on 7:26 pm
wuliuqiba – good one. I am stealing that for my personal blog.
24 October 2007, on 5:29 pm
^ That is a good cartoon!
I agree with those who see this mandate as a foot in the door of church-state separation, and I also agree with others who don’t see it as that egregious. It may not be at the top of the scale of violation, but I don’t think it should be glossed over, either.
27 October 2007, on 12:03 pm
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3783409
here’s the Illinois version of Michael Nudow…