Comments on: “Ban” or “Boycott?” http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/11/29/ban-or-boycott/ THIS BLOG IS NO LONGER ACTIVE. We've retired this blog, but the GifS gang is now active at Atheist Oasis (atheistoasis.wordpress.com). Visit us there! Thu, 22 Jul 2010 00:44:32 -0400 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.4 hourly 1 By: Warren http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/11/29/ban-or-boycott/comment-page-2/#comment-116082 Warren Wed, 06 Dec 2006 05:44:53 +0000 http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/11/29/ban-or-boycott/#comment-116082 The problem I have with the idea of a ban is twofold. One, I'm a strict adherent to the first amendment. Without freedom of expression, we're basically fucked. It was that freedom which allowed (for instance) a young Ben Franklin to publish incendiary anti-British tracts prior to the US Revolutionary War. It is that freedom which is so commonly abrogated by dictators that need not be enumerated. It is this same freedom which is threatened by the likes of Cheney, Rummy (late, unlamented) and even Bush himself when they try to dictate how The Media ought to think, act or behave in terms of their misbegotten war. Any time anyone sincerely begins suggesting suspension of free speech, we have to remember what happens when that happens … and even if the cause seems superficially just, we have to wonder if we're sacrificing a deeper freedom in the name of protecting ourselves from an ephemeral harm. Are we ready to lose habeas corpus in the name of stopping terrorism? Are we ready to stop using "nigger" in the name of ending racism? Well, look at that another way. Will racism be stopped because no one can say "nigger" any more? Will terrorism be stopped because we don't let accused terrorists be confronted with the evidence against them? My other reason is very parochial. I like <a href="http://indigestible.nightwares.com/2006/10/13/n-word-be-damned/" rel="nofollow">my review of</a> <i>To Kill a Mockingbird</i> and don't want to take it down just because it's unfashionable to use the word "nigger", even when referring to an inarguable work of art. The problem I have with the idea of a ban is twofold.

One, I’m a strict adherent to the first amendment. Without freedom of expression, we’re basically fucked. It was that freedom which allowed (for instance) a young Ben Franklin to publish incendiary anti-British tracts prior to the US Revolutionary War. It is that freedom which is so commonly abrogated by dictators that need not be enumerated. It is this same freedom which is threatened by the likes of Cheney, Rummy (late, unlamented) and even Bush himself when they try to dictate how The Media ought to think, act or behave in terms of their misbegotten war.

Any time anyone sincerely begins suggesting suspension of free speech, we have to remember what happens when that happens … and even if the cause seems superficially just, we have to wonder if we’re sacrificing a deeper freedom in the name of protecting ourselves from an ephemeral harm.

Are we ready to lose habeas corpus in the name of stopping terrorism? Are we ready to stop using “nigger” in the name of ending racism?

Well, look at that another way. Will racism be stopped because no one can say “nigger” any more?

Will terrorism be stopped because we don’t let accused terrorists be confronted with the evidence against them?

My other reason is very parochial. I like my review of To Kill a Mockingbird and don’t want to take it down just because it’s unfashionable to use the word “nigger”, even when referring to an inarguable work of art.

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By: cry4turtles http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/11/29/ban-or-boycott/comment-page-2/#comment-113621 cry4turtles Sat, 02 Dec 2006 16:13:58 +0000 http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/11/29/ban-or-boycott/#comment-113621 MoeHammered, point taken. Richard's certainly could have been more tactful (and strategic) in handeling the hecklers as per his comedic peers. I can't help but wonder what would Andrew Dice Clay have done? My guess-Richards went way too easy on them. MoeHammered, point taken. Richard’s certainly could have been more tactful (and strategic) in handeling the hecklers as per his comedic peers. I can’t help but wonder what would Andrew Dice Clay have done? My guess-Richards went way too easy on them.

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By: cry4turtles http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/11/29/ban-or-boycott/comment-page-2/#comment-113609 cry4turtles Sat, 02 Dec 2006 16:05:18 +0000 http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/11/29/ban-or-boycott/#comment-113609 After reading post #33, I took a quick look out my back window and lo and behold, one of my mother cats was carrying her kitten to the back of the barn, apparently to safety. After reading post #33, I took a quick look out my back window and lo and behold, one of my mother cats was carrying her kitten to the back of the barn, apparently to safety.

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By: bernarda http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/11/29/ban-or-boycott/comment-page-2/#comment-113523 bernarda Sat, 02 Dec 2006 12:36:24 +0000 http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/11/29/ban-or-boycott/#comment-113523 There is a good poet/rap/music group called The Watts Prophets. Their best album is "When the 90's Came". On it is the song "i'll stop calling you niggaz". "I ain't mad at whitey, I am mad at you, you low-down niggaz." "i'll stop calling you niggaz when you start acting like black men." A documentary on the Watts Prophets. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISUoTJaXVBQ This group was probably the father of rap today. There is a good poet/rap/music group called The Watts Prophets.

Their best album is “When the 90’s Came”. On it is the song “i’ll stop calling you niggaz”.

“I ain’t mad at whitey, I am mad at you, you low-down niggaz.”

“i’ll stop calling you niggaz when you start acting like black men.”

A documentary on the Watts Prophets.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ISUoTJaXVBQ

This group was probably the father of rap today.

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By: Bean http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/11/29/ban-or-boycott/comment-page-1/#comment-113247 Bean Sat, 02 Dec 2006 06:00:36 +0000 http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/11/29/ban-or-boycott/#comment-113247 <b>MoeHammered</b>, thanks for your matter-of-fact take on the whole thing. The only reason I may seem wishy-washy is that I tend to believe only about 1/3 of what I hear/see on news media, and I find that they only tell one side of any story. So, I don't feel qualified to make any kind of statement. In my view, if BOTH sides are guilty of racial slurring, they should just walk away. Choosing to punish one side over the other (in this case, by suing), would be wrong in such a case. However, if he is the only one, they should sue him if they feel like it. But I don't know what they said, and it matters to me. It isn't worse for a white person to insult a black person; all racial hatred is pointless in my view, so if they all did it, they're all guilty. <blockquote>Insulting people based on traits they have no control over is a crap insult.</blockquote> I agree that hating someone for the things about them that they can't change, be it skin color, country of origin, etc. is ridiculous. Don't we have enough to hate one another for without bringing that stuff in, too? Besides, why should someone <b>want</b> to change their skin color (aside from appeasing bigots)? I love the variety found in the human phenotype. MoeHammered, thanks for your matter-of-fact take on the whole thing. The only reason I may seem wishy-washy is that I tend to believe only about 1/3 of what I hear/see on news media, and I find that they only tell one side of any story. So, I don’t feel qualified to make any kind of statement. In my view, if BOTH sides are guilty of racial slurring, they should just walk away. Choosing to punish one side over the other (in this case, by suing), would be wrong in such a case. However, if he is the only one, they should sue him if they feel like it. But I don’t know what they said, and it matters to me. It isn’t worse for a white person to insult a black person; all racial hatred is pointless in my view, so if they all did it, they’re all guilty.

Insulting people based on traits they have no control over is a crap insult.

I agree that hating someone for the things about them that they can’t change, be it skin color, country of origin, etc. is ridiculous. Don’t we have enough to hate one another for without bringing that stuff in, too? Besides, why should someone want to change their skin color (aside from appeasing bigots)? I love the variety found in the human phenotype.

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By: Bean http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/11/29/ban-or-boycott/comment-page-1/#comment-113235 Bean Sat, 02 Dec 2006 05:43:54 +0000 http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/11/29/ban-or-boycott/#comment-113235 <blockquote>Any comedian worth a shit should be able to deal with heckling.</blockquote> Apparently, he doesn't fall into <i>that</i> category. He wasn't really very funny on Seinfeld, so I can't see how he would be funny doing standup when Seinfeld always felt like a running standup comedy act. This story is depressing because, just when I think it's only Southern cowboy-types that act like this in our modern age, I am reminded that it is everywhere. And, as I've said before, Jesse Jackson and his ilk are no better. They aren't for helping anyone except themselves...to as much money as possible. Why isn't he out there (or anyone else with money, black or white!) handing out condoms and paying for free vasectomies when people want them. Helping build houses and pay for child care so parents can go to work. Instead, he's wearing extremely expensive suits and has an entourage. Rappers who talk about how hard life was before they were famous should take some of that money back to their neighborhoods and clean them up. Money can do lots of things, especially when coupled with fame and a humanitarian cause. I'm tired of people fighting and I wish that they would turn those energies toward something positive.

Any comedian worth a shit should be able to deal with heckling.

Apparently, he doesn’t fall into that category. He wasn’t really very funny on Seinfeld, so I can’t see how he would be funny doing standup when Seinfeld always felt like a running standup comedy act.

This story is depressing because, just when I think it’s only Southern cowboy-types that act like this in our modern age, I am reminded that it is everywhere. And, as I’ve said before, Jesse Jackson and his ilk are no better. They aren’t for helping anyone except themselves…to as much money as possible. Why isn’t he out there (or anyone else with money, black or white!) handing out condoms and paying for free vasectomies when people want them. Helping build houses and pay for child care so parents can go to work. Instead, he’s wearing extremely expensive suits and has an entourage. Rappers who talk about how hard life was before they were famous should take some of that money back to their neighborhoods and clean them up. Money can do lots of things, especially when coupled with fame and a humanitarian cause.

I’m tired of people fighting and I wish that they would turn those energies toward something positive.

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By: MoeHammered http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/11/29/ban-or-boycott/comment-page-1/#comment-113118 MoeHammered Sat, 02 Dec 2006 03:13:12 +0000 http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/11/29/ban-or-boycott/#comment-113118 Die Anyway - Yes, it would have been "better" if Richards had called them "low-life, gutter crawling cretins". That is addressing them as individuals, making a specific insult. RACIAL slurs, on the other hand, disparage an entire group of diverse people as "lesser than" - the word "nigger" has very real, very palpable power in our society which regarded black people as second class citizens deserving of fewer rights than whites in RECENT history. We're talking less than two generations ago. Hell, the whole "Sun City" political firestorm of South African apartheid was being ignored during the Reagan administration. "Nigger" isn't just a "disparaging term" - it is HATEFUL language. Using "nigger" as an insult shows a clear intention on the part of the person that uses it to not just insult the individuals they are immediately referring to, but to equate the behavior of ALL black people with the worst of whatever happens to be pissing them off at the time. Calling two rude black people "niggers" implies that ALL black people are just rude "niggers". That they are lesser-than because they're skin is black. Interesting that you yourself made a connection between "low-life, gutter crawling cretins" and "niggers". I'm not trying to imply that you are a racist, "DieAnyway", but seeing "nigger" as some sort of misbehaving sub-set of black people is not the way the epithet originated. The KKK and Aryan Nation regard ALL blacks as "niggers", as "lesser-than". That is why the word has such power. Black people were actually LYNCHED because that's the justice "niggers" supposedly deserved. That is our history. This is the reality we live in. Richards chose his words and never corrected himself as he raved on. Insulting people based on traits they have no control over is a crap insult. As a comic, one knows there is an art to insults. Language, in all it's rich variety, is powerful. Language is how comics make their money. They should know better. Christ, honkey, YOU should know better. Die Anyway -
Yes, it would have been “better” if Richards had called them “low-life, gutter crawling cretins”.
That is addressing them as individuals, making a specific insult. RACIAL slurs, on the other hand, disparage an entire group of diverse people as “lesser than” – the word “nigger” has very real, very palpable power in our society which regarded black people as second class citizens deserving of fewer rights than whites in RECENT history.
We’re talking less than two generations ago.
Hell, the whole “Sun City” political firestorm of South African apartheid was being ignored during the Reagan administration.
“Nigger” isn’t just a “disparaging term” – it is HATEFUL language. Using “nigger” as an insult shows a clear intention on the part of the person that uses it to not just insult the individuals they are immediately referring to, but to equate the behavior of ALL black people with the worst of whatever happens to be pissing them off at the time. Calling two rude black people “niggers” implies that ALL black people are just rude “niggers”. That they are lesser-than because they’re skin is black.
Interesting that you yourself made a connection between “low-life, gutter crawling cretins” and “niggers”. I’m not trying to imply that you are a racist, “DieAnyway”, but seeing “nigger” as some sort of misbehaving sub-set of black people is not the way the epithet originated. The KKK and Aryan Nation regard ALL blacks as “niggers”, as “lesser-than”. That is why the word has such power. Black people were actually LYNCHED because that’s the justice “niggers” supposedly deserved.
That is our history. This is the reality we live in. Richards chose his words and never corrected himself as he raved on.
Insulting people based on traits they have no control over is a crap insult. As a comic, one knows there is an art to insults. Language, in all it’s rich variety, is powerful. Language is how comics make their money.
They should know better. Christ, honkey, YOU should know better.

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By: Eve http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/11/29/ban-or-boycott/comment-page-1/#comment-113013 Eve Sat, 02 Dec 2006 01:41:31 +0000 http://gods4suckers.net/archives/2006/11/29/ban-or-boycott/#comment-113013 Glad you like it, Moe! Glad you like it, Moe!

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